Xavier Barsalou-Duval

Madam Speaker, Claims · 92 wordsthis morning we are talking about Bill C‑28, an act to amend the Aeronautics Act and other acts.¹ Essentially, we are talking about this because the government wants to establish a legislative framework for satellite launches and space launches. Canada does not have a legislative framework for this type of activity.² In addition, Canada is currently fully dependent on the Americans. They have been a historic partner we used to work with for this type of launch, relying on their facilities and expertise. That is why the government introduced this bill today. Positioning · 32 wordsDoes the Bloc Québécois see this in a negative light? I would say that it depends. In fact, we see it as more positive than negative, but we still have some questions.Positioning Claims · 29 wordsSpace exploration was a hot topic in the 1950s and 1960s. At the time, it was mainly the U.S.S.R. and the United States that were competing with one another. Reasoning · 26 wordsHowever, that does not change the fact that all countries around the world had a vested interest in thinking about this issue and building their capacity. Claims · 49 wordsToday, we are seeing trends emerging on the international stage. Companies like SpaceX and Starlink are increasingly using earth’s orbit for all kinds of communications, such as the Internet. It feels like we are heading more and more in that direction in the future. There will be more launches. Reasoning · 16 wordsUnder these circumstances, it would be beneficial for us to have our own launch capabilities here. Positioning · 23 wordsOn that point, I do not think I have any objections. The only question is, why is Canada 50 or 60 years behind?Positioning Claims · 21 wordsIt is 2026. Today we are realizing that we are lagging behind the United States and the rest of the world. Positioning · 47 wordsOne might argue that the circumstances have changed. One could say that Canada was perhaps the most naive country in the world, because it is the only G7 country that does not have its own launch capabilities.³ That is quite surprising. Canada is waking up rather late.Positioning Procedure · 17 wordsThat being said, since we have to start somewhere, let us begin with the bill before us.Procedure Promise · 11 wordsWe will study it carefully and examine what is being proposed. Claims · 101 wordsIn essence, what does the bill do? It amends the Aeronautics Act.⁴ Obviously, spacecraft are not aircraft, but this legislation governs the use of airspace. It determines how launch and re-entry activities work, and it establishes definitions. For example, it defines what launch vehicles and re-entry vehicles are.⁵ It also provides that certain definitions will be created through regulations.⁶ However, it is extremely unfortunate that the bill contains so few definitions. There are few details on what purpose it all serves. It creates a legislative framework, but it gives the government maximum flexibility to decide how it will work, through regulations. Reasoning · 15 wordsThis means that parliamentarians are not the ones who are going to study the issue. Claims · 18 wordsThe minister’s office will be able to decide the more specific rules behind closed doors and in secret. Reasoning · 16 wordsThat allows more flexibility to adapt to future developments without needing to go through Parliament again. Procedure · 4 wordsThat much is obvious.Procedure Reasoning · 47 wordsThe downside, however, is that decisions can be made behind closed doors, without us parliamentarians being able to keep an eye on these matters and without the public and the media knowing what is going on. This can lead to abuses if there is no adequate oversight. Promise · 30 wordsWe will have to see in committee what the oversight mechanisms will look like if all the power to establish the rules is concentrated in the hands of the minister. Reasoning · 25 wordsThis would create a situation where it would become pretty easy for certain organizations or companies to get special treatment through lobbying or influence campaigns. Positioning · 29 wordsThat is not what we want. We also do not want the government to be able to decide to prevent the best and brightest from reaching their full potential, PositioningPromise · 10 wordsso we will be keeping a close eye on this.Vague promise Claims · 41 wordsThe bill also authorizes the minister: ...to indemnify owners and operators of launch or re-entry vehicles in certain circumstances, ⁷and when it is in the public interest, for their liability to third parties for loss or damage caused by their activities.... Reasoning · 61 wordsWhen someone wants to get into the space launch business and they go to see an insurer and say that they want to do business in this sector, the insurer will likely be extremely surprised and tell them that it will cost them a lot of money because very few people are in this business and the risks are quite significant. Claims · 20 wordsThe bill enables the government to assume the risk, if it so desires, and to indemnify those who experience setbacks. Positioning · 6 wordsThat is not a terrible idea, PositioningReasoning · 64 wordsbecause, if we want to encourage investment in extremely risky activities, if we want to encourage people to get involved in these sorts of activities when we do not have the expertise or companies that are as well established as those in the United States, for example, then it may help to tell them that the government will support them should any problems arise. Procedure · 5 wordsHowever, here is the question: ProcedureThe ask · 23 wordsHow will the government decide who to support and who not to support? Will that just be left up to the minister’s discretion? Positioning · 8 wordsWe have a lot of questions about that.Positioning Procedure · 19 wordsThere is also the whole issue of the public interest because some people will feel the effects of this.Procedure The ask · 37 wordsWe need to ensure that we have proper protections in place for those who experience setbacks. We need to ensure that they are properly indemnified and that they are, at the very least, protected from the risks. Reasoning · 45 wordsI do not think that anyone will feel reassured if we tell them not to worry because we will buy them a new house if theirs burns down. People would rather we make sure that their house does not burn down in the first place. Positioning · 8 wordsThe bill before us today still needs work, PositioningReasoning · 22 wordsbut we are coming at it with a very open mind because this legislation is necessary and Canada is lagging far behind. Procedure · 15 wordsIt will be very interesting to hear what the witnesses have to say at committee.Procedure Claims · 48 wordsThis is a highly specialized subject, and their expertise will help us. I am certainly no aerospace engineer, but I do know a few of them. It will be helpful to get input from industry people and from people who live in places that are potential launch sites. The ask · 22 wordsHow are these launch sites selected? Are there criteria? Are the criteria objective, or is it all at the minister’s discretion again? Claims · 39 wordsThere are a lot of unanswered questions at this point. It is important to note that the bill would amend a bunch of acts: the Carriage by Air Act, the Canada Transportation Act and the Secure Air Travel Act.⁸ Promise · 12 wordsWe will have to investigate the broader implications of amending those acts. Claims · 47 wordsYes, the goal is to create a legislative framework, a space, a structure for the aerospace sector, but legislative amendments can have unexpected consequences, outcomes nobody anticipated because we do not necessarily have all the knowledge and expertise when the time comes to vote at second reading. Promise · 16 wordsWe are going to take this seriously and give the government the benefit of the doubt. Positioning · 52 wordsI think the government is trying to do something commendable. The question is how it goes about it. Unfortunately, the devil is often in the details. We are used to the Liberals slipping in little poison pills here and there, or proposing somewhat hidden plans designed to favour or help their cronies.Positioning Claims · 15 wordsThere is nothing leading me to believe that that will be the case this time. Positioning · 27 wordsStill, we have become so accustomed to these kinds of Liberal manoeuvres that we will certainly keep that in mind as we move forward with the process.Positioning Claims · 22 wordsAnother issue we have questions about is the fact that there is currently only one launch site, located in Canso, Nova Scotia.⁹ The ask · 26 wordsWould it make sense to have others in the future? What exactly justifies the conclusion that this is the only place where one should be located? Positioning · 7 wordsI have nothing against the existing site.Positioning Claims · 6 wordsI think we need more sites. Procedure · 12 wordsAt the very least, these are questions that need to be asked.Procedure Claims · 72 wordsIt also remains to be seen what amendments will be proposed by the other parties, whether by the Conservative Party, which is represented at committee, ¹⁰or by the NDP, which is not.¹¹ I do not know whether the NDP members will have the time, energy and resources to take an interest in this bill. The same goes for the Green Party. I do not know what its intentions are in this regard. Positioning · 68 wordsSince I am a member of the Bloc Québécois, I obviously think that the Bloc has the best ideas and the best vision, Partly on pointbut the other parties sometimes have good ideas too. That is less true of the Liberals, but we will still listen to what they have to say, especially since they are the ones in office and we do not have much choice in the matter.Positioning Procedure · 9 wordsIs it time for Canada to develop its capabilities?Procedure Claims · 64 wordsI would say yes, definitely. However, there is one thing that is not very clear in this legislation and that I look forward to learning more about, and that is the fact that this type of aerospace launch facility often also has military uses, not just civilian uses. It has scientific and commercial uses, and this framework will have to regulate all of that. The ask · 35 wordsIt would be nice to get an idea of the Liberals’ interests. What are their intentions moving forward? How do they intend to capitalize on the legal framework that we will soon be working on? Claims · 27 wordsI think that the question of research interest is obvious. The question of commercial interest is being discussed more and more. Awareness of this issue is growing. Reasoning · 10 wordsHowever, the question of defence interest should not be overlooked. Claims · 12 wordsIt does not seem like it is being discussed publicly at present, Reasoning · 8 wordsbut I think it should not be forgotten. Claims · 17 wordsIt seems obvious to me that National Defence will want to use these sites for military testing. The ask · 21 wordsWhat types of military tests would be conducted? Where do Canada’s military capabilities currently stand, specifically in terms of defence autonomy? Procedure · 7 wordsWe see this elsewhere in the world.Procedure Claims · 31 wordsInvestments in the aerospace sector can often have military applications, just as many investments in the military sector can also have applications in the aerospace sector. Just think of ballistic missiles. The ask · 10 wordsIs the purpose of this bill to support certain sectors? Claims · 17 wordsAs I mentioned, there is certainly a military interest, from a defence perspective, and a commercial interest, The ask · 23 wordsbut it would be nice to know which specific sectors the government intends to support and how it plans to use these tools. Reasoning · 84 wordsI believe that everyone deserves transparency, that everyone deserves to know the truth. Having as much transparency as possible will also allow us to move forward with as much confidence as possible. I do not think anyone wants to end up with nasty surprises in a few years because things were hidden from the public, because this was never properly debated and because the necessary legal framework was not established through the amendments this bill needed in case any blind spots were left unaddressed. Claims · 9 wordsWe have important work to do on this bill, Promise · 11 wordsand we are going to approach it with the utmost seriousness. Positioning · 18 wordsObviously, we cannot fault the Canadian government for wanting to break free from its dependence on American facilities.Positioning Procedure · 8 wordsHowever, the question that will always be asked, ProcedureThe ask · 15 wordsand that we must also always monitor, is who is going to invest in this? Reasoning · 16 wordsWe are not divesting from American interests only to jump into the arms of other interests. Promise · 20 wordsStill, we have to take a serious approach if we sincerely want to achieve Canadian sovereignty and eventually Quebec sovereignty. Positioning · 5 wordsThat is what I want.PositioningPartly on point Claims · 57 wordsWe have emerging companies with potential. We have expertise in Canada. In fact, the Canadian Space Agency’s headquarters is located in Saint-Hubert, just a stone’s throw from my riding.¹² The CSA has lots of expertise and great facilities. I am sure that its representatives will have things to say about this bill and interesting opinions to share. The ask · 15 wordsWhy not have a launch site in Quebec, given that the CSA is based there? Claims · 18 wordsLogistically speaking, it would be much closer than having to travel all the way to Canso, Nova Scotia. The ask · 8 wordsIs there potential to develop something in Quebec? Positioning · 7 wordsI can see the value in that.Positioning Claims · 100 wordsI think that, as Quebeckers, it is in our interest to have this type of expertise, even if it already exists here. Quebec has an aerospace industry, as I mentioned, with the space centre in Saint-Hubert, but we also have plenty of aeronautics expertise and knowledge. A great deal of aeronautics knowledge and expertise is applicable to aerospace. We have Bombardier, which is an important player in Quebec, but we also have the Airbus and Bell Textron facilities.¹³ People in the aeronautics sector are interested in what is happening in the space sector, and their skills often come in handy. The ask · 57 wordsGiven that Quebec has this strength, I hope the federal government will be willing to recognize that we already have assets and strengths in Quebec. Why not build on Quebec’s strengths and assets rather than spreading our efforts all over the place and ultimately ending up with something that is less powerful, less interesting and less effective? Claims · 41 wordsQuebec has the expertise, and we must make the most of it. Unfortunately, the federal government still does not have an aeronautics policy, even though aeronautics is a leading industry that is very lucrative for Quebec.¹⁴ It is a cutting-edge field, Positioning · 13 wordsand yet Ottawa has no vision for it. I think that is unfortunate.Positioning Claims · 7 wordsThe same goes for the aerospace sector, Procedure · 4 wordsas we now see.Procedure Claims · 5 wordsThis is 60 years overdue. Reasoning · 20 wordsIt is high time we developed a vision, but is this really a vision? I do not think it is. Claims · 4 wordsThis is a framework. The ask · 16 wordsIf the government has a vision, then it would be good to know what it is. Claims · 17 wordsRight now, it is unclear whether the government has one. Obviously, the current regulatory framework is inadequate. Promise · 19 wordsWe will work on that, particularly with regard to rocket launches, satellite imagery and the full potential of satellites, Claims · 95 wordswhich have a growing number of applications. We are discovering more every year, almost every month. We know that satellites are highly useful, including in the war in Ukraine. Were it not for these advantages, particularly those derived from the tools the Americans have put at its disposal, Ukraine would have already lost the war. That aspect is often underestimated. We often tend to overlook it, but it is very important. This has an impact in the military sphere, but there is also the issue of Internet access in the regions, in more remote areas. The ask · 24 wordsIn the future, will technological developments render the entire wired Internet system we have today obsolete? Will our communications and telecommunications systems become outdated? Claims · 142 wordsI cannot say. What I do know is that we are increasingly seeing a trend toward satellite technologies when it comes to investments and that there is a lot of potential there. Earlier, I mentioned that Quebec is home to several companies in the aerospace industry. I am thinking about Héroux Devtek, which is in the landing gear business.¹⁵ We could also talk about Quebec companies that manufacture flight simulators. In addition, there is a new Quebec start-up company based in Longueuil, in my area. It plans to use the facility in Canso, Nova Scotia. This company is Reaction Dynamics, ¹⁶which is working on its own vehicle, the Aurora-8, ¹⁷which would be completely independent from what is being done in the United States. It is a great start-up that we want to encourage, because we think it has a lot of potential. Positioning · 7 wordsWe are proud of our homegrown expertise.Positioning Claims · 12 wordsWe believe that the Canadian government must continue to have a vision. Procedure · 3 wordsI say “continue”, ProcedureClaims · 10 wordsbut the government did not have a vision until now, Reasoning · 9 wordsso in fact, it needs to develop a vision. Claims · 29 wordsWhat matters to us is that Quebec’s interests are taken into account. Expertise in the satellite industry is important. Apparently, 20% of our economic activity is tied to satellites.¹⁸ Procedure · 3 wordsThat is huge.Procedure Reasoning · 23 wordsWith digitization playing an ever-increasing role in almost everything, satellites are the future. That is why it is important to get on board. Procedure · 18 wordsI have more to say, but I may get a chance to say it during the committee’s study.Procedure