“Mr. Speaker, the Liberal government’s Cúram software platform has become the newest IT project to make the list of over-budget, chronically delayed programs it delivers to Canadians. The program was launched in 2017, just two years after the Liberals took office. The Auditor General found that, by 2022, the program had run into delays and into cost overruns that increased by 43% before a single benefit had been processed by the system. Reports from Le Journal de Montréal estimate that the once $1.75‑billion IT project meant to modernize old age security payments will cost up to $6.6 billion. I wish I could say that this project was the first of its kind. Unfortunately it is the latest in the long list of Liberal-managed IT projects where costs ballooned, and connected consultants got paid. Members of the House voted to launch an independent inquiry into these projects, such as Phoenix, the arrive scam scandal and now Cúram, to find out how the same pattern of delay is followed by cost overruns and by a big bill for taxpayers to pay, while the people overseeing the projects are not held accountable, and why the middlemen involved walk away, getting paid every time. During the arrive scam scandal, connected consultants working out of a basement apartment took millions of dollars without performing any work. They engineered a bid to build the ArriveCAN app, and they contracted out all the work to others while pocketing the difference. The project was originally projected to cost just $80,000 but ended up costing $64.5 million. The connected insiders kept millions of dollars, and Canadians were left footing the bill for an app that the Auditor General found did not provide value for money. Cúram may not simply cost upwards of $6 billion. Reports from March indicate that tens of thousands of seniors were having issues with their benefits, and delays had reached up to 85,000 people. Members of the Liberal government stood up in the House, after taking questions, and first denied anything was wrong, but then they told members to reach out personally and to not make the issue political. Since when has question period, a time when opposition members ensure accountability by asking questions of the government, become a time when the Liberals continually demonstrate arrogance by suggesting that by pointing out that the Liberals failed to deliver the Cúram program on time or on budget, or that nearly 85,000 seniors could not access their benefits, political opponents are playing politics? That attitude is beneath members of this place. I will ask the minister the question again: Why do Liberal programs always massively exceed their projected costs, and why are seniors forced to pay the price for the Liberals’ incompetence?”
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Mr. Speaker, Thanks · 36 wordsI want to thank the hon. member for Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek for her concern and her engagement on this, and I want to convey, on behalf of the government, that we do take those questions seriously.ThanksProcedure · 38 wordsI want to address how the system is working at ESDC and issues around the accuracy of payments.I also want to clear up some misinformation surrounding program costs.Let us start at the beginning of this journey.ProcedureClaims · 40 wordsIn 2010, the Auditor General noted there was a high risk that in time, the IT infrastructure would not be able to support the delivery of core programs like OAS, EI and CPP, based on systems that were decades old.1Reasoning · 6 wordsWe knew an upgrade was essential.Claims · 18 wordsSince 2017, we have been investing in benefits delivery modernization because Canadians deserve functional, responsive and dependable services.Reasoning · 58 wordsWe knew that any interruption to accurate and on-time payments could significantly affect recipients’ ability to meet their daily needs, such as buying food or paying rent, needs that are addressed significantly by those supplements and benefits.We also knew that this would be an incredibly complicated task and that doing the job correctly would require significant investment.Claims · 155 wordsBetween 2017 and March 31 of this year, the federal government spent $1.8 billion on the benefits delivery modernization program.2The recently completed old age security on benefits delivery modernization project was delivered as planned and under budget.3The total cost, however, has evolved, and that is due to what we now understand and what we are learning about some of the evolving threats and changes in the information technology space.Current estimates have evolved over time as we have gained a greater understanding of the complexity of unravelling 60-year-old systems.The 2023 Office of the Auditor General report acknowledged the department’s commitment to revising estimates, 4as I think is appropriate.The program’s long-term estimate of $6.6 billion now covers the completion of four main projects by 2031: 5the full transformation of benefits delivery for all old age security, employment insurance and Canada pension plan payments, as well as modernizing all of ESDC’s call centres.Positioning · 10 wordsWhat is different from when the estimates were first generated?PositioningClaims · 34 wordsWell, the cybersecurity landscape in 2017 was much less complex than it is today.Fraud and cyber-threats have been increasing in speed, scale and sophistication.This impacts the complexity and cost of the modernization.Reasoning · 13 wordsIn other words, the threat environment raises the cost of keeping Canadians secure, Positioning · 20 wordsand we are responding proactively, ultimately to protect the financial health of the program and the interests of Canadian taxpayers.PositioningVague promiseClaims · 208 wordsOf the $473.4 million announced in the 2026 spring economic update, $176 million over two years will be used to increase OAS processing capacity and for OAS system maintenance and support.6In terms of some of the questions the member has raised regarding the selection of proponents, we are fully transparent and we follow standard practices.Every contract includes clear deliverables.All contracts are competitively awarded and proactively disclosed in accordance with the rules in place.7In terms of the beneficiaries, of who is benefiting from this transformation and the hard work that has been done by hard-working public servants and others, 7.4 million old age security clients were migrated to the new platform last year.8Each one continued to receive payments as planned.The new system is currently providing 7.7 million seniors with pension benefits every month, many of whom rely on OAS as their primary or only source of income.9The system is operating correctly, and 89.6 million payments have been issued with a value of nearly $84.7 billion.10The number of clients waiting beyond their first month for payment has declined, and the department continues to ensure that these cases are processed and that clients have access to the benefits to which they are entitled.Vague promise
