MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT

Rhéal Éloi Fortin

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Fortin presses for federal money owed to Quebec, including the $814 million carbon-tax repayment Quebeckers say they are owed, a 10% increase in old age security for seniors aged 65 to 74, and respect for provincial jurisdiction, and sponsors a bill on timely criminal trials. He argues by wandering into asides mid-point, as in “It made my hair stand on end” and “We are perhaps a little too naive.”Written by AI from their statements. Updated .

Average grade
B
79 / 100 over 46 statements
Signal 69 / 100
Relevance 76 / 100
Respect 100 / 100
Clarity 98 / 100
Averaged over the 46 of 46 statements graded so far.

In their own words

Loses points more than most for

Loses points less than most for Something stated as certain with nothing to back it.Less often than most members.What the tags mean A promise with no date, no measure and no one responsible.Less often than most members.What the tags mean

Does well more than most

Answered ×1.6

Statements 46

Government Orders ·

Strengthening Canada's Defence Sector Act

“This bill sets up a new Crown corporation, but the government will still control its decisions. It changes nothing real. It just gives a friend of the Prime Minister a job leading this corporation with a huge salary. I want to know what my colleague thinks about this.”
  • Question or comment in debate

    Clarity 39 of 100

    Much of this statement used imprecise wording, lacked details on timing or responsibility, or made broad claims without support.

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Official Hansard

Madam Speaker, creating this new Crown corporation is all well and good. It allows the government to say that decisions will be made independently. However, when we read the bill, it is clear that the government still retains control over decisions. Even if the decisions are officially being made by a Crown corporation, there will still be government oversight. That seems a bit pointless to me. It strikes me as a bit of a smoke-and-mirrors show that will not really change anything meaningfully on the ground, especially since it is clear that it benefits a former colleague and friend of the Prime Minister who will end up at the head of this Crown corporation with a salary that could be described as astronomical. How does my colleague view these issues in relation to Bill C-40?

“Many veterans leave the military and end up with no job, no support, and no recognition. I looked at this bill, and I do not see how it fixes this. I want the member to explain how it will help veterans return to normal life.”
Official Hansard

Madam Speaker, I would like my colleague to explain in greater detail how this bill will help veterans of the Canadian Armed Forces successfully transition to civilian life. I agree with her. I have seen cases like this in my constituency. Many individuals leave the armed forces for a variety of reasons, only to find themselves with nothing. They have no job, no social network and no recognition for their service. I have studied Bill C-40, but I am not sure I can see any concrete improvements in it. In her view, how will Bill C-40 help these people?

Government Orders ·

Strengthening Canada's Defence Sector Act

“I want to know what this bill actually gives our military, like more soldiers, planes, or ships. The government has not given me a clear answer. Setting up a Crown corporation just lets the government avoid taking responsibility for its actions. Does my colleague agree that this is the only real change the bill makes?”
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask my colleague a question because I have not been able to get a clear answer from our colleagues in the government as to what, in practical terms, this bill will achieve within our armed forces. Will we have more tanks, airplanes, ships, soldiers and so on? Does he have an answer to that question? If not, does my colleague agree with me that the only change is that, with an agency, the government remains accountable to the public, whereas under a Crown corporation, even if the government issues the same directives to it, there is less accountability? The government will say that it is a Crown corporation and not the government itself. To my mind, that is the only advantage I can see. Does my colleague agree, or am I mistaken?

“Our translation system has problems when a Quebec member feels they must speak English to be understood. Also, this bill does not seem to make real investments in defence. It just turns an agency into a Crown corporation. I want to know if this bill will actually train soldiers and buy planes, ships, and tanks, or if it is just a cosmetic name change.”
  • Question or comment in debate

    Signal 37 of 100

    Much of this statement went to praise, blame, greetings, routine procedure or general stories rather than reasons, requests or specific points.

    See full analysis
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for her speech. Before I ask her a question, I want to point out to the House that this is a perfect example of the problems we have with the interpretation system. It is forcing a colleague from Quebec to give a speech in English to ensure that her anglophone colleagues understand it. I think that is a shame. Let us not forget that. That said, Bill C‑40 talks about investments. In fact, it talks about transitioning from an agency to a Crown corporation. It is six of one and half a dozen of the other. To me, it does not seem like a significant investment to improve Canada’s defence situation. It looks like a minor change to me, a cosmetic change. I want to hear my colleague’s comments on that. Is this bill calling for clear investments? Will the government actually hire soldiers, train them better, or buy planes, ships and tanks? Is there any investment in defence, or is it just a change in the name of a structure? At the same time, could the same thing not have been done with an agency rather than a Crown corporation? It is all a bit discouraging.

“This bill spends defence money on new government offices and high salaries for political friends instead of buying tanks, planes, or recruiting soldiers. I want to know what my colleague thinks about meeting our NATO defence spending targets this way.”
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, I would like to hear my colleague’s views on the 5% of GDP that NATO requires for defence spending. Personally, I thought the government would be investing in buying tanks or airplanes or recruiting new soldiers. Instead, it seems to be investing primarily in organizational structures. There was going to be an agency, and now it will be a corporation. There was going to be a director, but now they will be called something else. I do not know what the person’s title will be, but their salary will be at least double that of their predecessor. The government is tinkering with structures. All of this comes at a cost to Canadians and Quebeckers. At a time when everyone is tightening their belts and being asked to pay more, the government is spending money not on improving our defence capabilities, but on creating new structures and jobs for the Prime Minister’s friends. This strikes me as a highly questionable way of meeting the NATO target. What does my colleague think?

“This bill just changes the name of our defence agency. It does not seem to add real projects or help Canadians and Quebecers. It looks like a way for the government to avoid blame if things go wrong later.”
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his remarks. As always, he demonstrates a thorough grasp of the file. Perhaps he can help clarify something for me. As I read this bill, I am having some difficulty following it as well, much like my colleague. We currently have the Defence Investment Agency, which would be replaced by the Canadian corporation for defence investment. Aside from a change in name, letterhead and business cards, and setting aside the possibility of creating a well-paid position for a friend of the Prime Minister, what would actually change? Does this bill actually contain any defence investment projects? For now, it appears to be largely cosmetic. The only purpose I can see for this legislation, although I may be missing something, is that it would allow the government to wash its hands of any future problems. It could then say that the matter is not under its control because it falls within the mandate of a Crown corporation. Am I mistaken, or is there genuinely some added value here for Canadians and Quebeckers?

Private Members' Business ·

Youth Criminal Justice Act

In response to a question from Kevin Lamoureux

“I want the House to pass this bill quickly. Drug addiction is a health problem, not a crime. Teenagers need treatment and a second chance, not prison.”
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, I am probably going to repeat some of the things I said in the spring. The reality of legislative life is that we come back to the same bill, work on it and approve it again. As my colleague said earlier, I already spoke to this bill in committee, as well as in the House at second reading. I will now speak to it at third reading. I look forward to passing it. I think we all want it to be passed quickly, but David deserves for us to pass it quickly. Drug addictions are not a legal issue. These are medical issues, especially when it comes to our teenagers. Of course, drug addictions are not fun. We would not wish for anyone to have to deal with addictions of this nature, neither colleagues of the same age or the same generation, nor our parents or children. Drug use is bad. Drug trafficking must be stopped. It is vital to combat it in every way possible. This is being done. There are always attempts to balance more restrictive measures with preventative, corrective and rehabilitative measures. It is not always easy. Colleagues from different parties often have heated arguments and fierce debates on these issues. When it comes to our teenagers, I am pleased to see that we are all on the same page, even members from other parties who generally tend to disagree with our point of view. As members know, rehabilitation is part of the Bloc Québécois’s DNA. We are perhaps a little too naive. Likely so. Perhaps we would be better off being less naive. It all depends on one’s point of view, but we believe in rehabilitation. The society that we want to build, the one that we want to live in and that we want our children to live in, is a caring society. We want it to be a society that we will be happy to live in and that will accept us despite our shortcomings, our mistakes, our faults and our flaws, a society that will help us to get back on the straight and narrow, help us to see the light and help us to better understand what is best for us and for the rest of society. The Bloc Québécois adopted this way of thinking and this way of doing things a long time ago, when the party was founded and possibly even well before that. I cannot speak for members of other parliaments, but I would be surprised if Quebec thought differently. I believe that, historically, in Quebec, we have always favoured rehabilitation over punishment. There must be punishment. I am not saying that we do not need any. We must take firm action. We need to be fair, equitable and rigorous in how we treat our young people in particular. They need limits. They need guidelines to determine what is right and wrong. Often, even sometimes as parents, we are amazed at the impact or influence we can have on them because they do not show us and they will not tell us. However, in the long term, we find out that they have learned something from what we have been able to tell them in the past, and that is great. Yes, we believe in interventions, including those of a criminal nature, but above all, we believe in rehabilitation. We need to help people understand, those around us who have strayed—I do not like to use the expression “strayed” because I myself tend to stray from time to time—or those who have bent the societal rules that we have set for ourselves and who try to do things differently. We need to help them see things clearly. Addiction is a serious problem that must be addressed, but when it comes to teenagers in particular, we need to focus on rehabilitation and recovery. It really needs to be viewed as a dependence issue, a health problem, rather than a criminal problem. I was listening to my colleague on the government side earlier, and I agreed with him. I was even pleased to hear him say the following. I will quote him word for word, because I wrote it down. The words I wrote down are these: “to give someone a break.” However, I think he should have said: “to give society a break.” It is not just “someone”. These young folks who have strayed from the straight and narrow, who have taken drugs, who have struggled with addiction, and who are having a hard time turning things around would possibly, if not probably, make valuable contributions to society under different circumstances. Our society needs them. We need people like David today. He could have become an incredible social worker, maybe a lawyer or a member of Parliament. Who knows? He could have made a contribution to our society. We need David and other young people in the same situation. When someone gets a second chance, society as a whole gets a second chance. Society can then benefit from the important contributions these young folks can make. To me, that is important. It is our duty as parliamentarians to fix what needs to be fixed, but to do so in the right way, by investing in our future. Earlier, I asked my colleague from Mégantic—L’Érable—Lotbinière a question. I asked him if it were possible, if we could imagine a scenario where all members of the House, regardless of their party, could also agree, under different circumstances, on meaningful bills. These bills might not be perfect, and we might want to make some changes to them, but we could still agree to pass them quickly. I am not talking about rushing to adopt them by saying that it is in the national interest and that they will take effect as early as next week. That is a different matter. We will discuss that another time. Rather, I am talking about reaching an agreement to adopt them in a reasonable manner. In my opinion, there are too many bills that get carried over from one Parliament to the next. It is counterproductive. The amount of money, time and effort that is needlessly invested in bills that never come to fruition is unbelievable, and I would say incalculable. I have not even tried to calculate it. It disappoints me. I am disappointed all the time. As for David’s bill, which we are considering today, it gives me confidence in the humanity of my colleagues in this House, and that is something I truly appreciate. I want to say this not only to our colleague from Mégantic—L’Érable—Lotbinière, but to all members of the House: When a bill is worthwhile, even if it is not perfect, can we make a greater effort to discuss it before it reaches committee and comes to a vote? Can we work together to find ways to move it forward? Can we ensure that when a bill is introduced, it is passed, if not within a few months, then at least within a year? That is my hope, and though it may be somewhat naive, I hope my colleagues will allow me the occasional moment of naivety. I would love to see bills like this advance more quickly. Let me close by returning to what I said earlier about David’s law. I will share what I have learned from all this and from the handful of years I have spent on this earth. I do not consider myself old; I often say that no one is truly old until they reach three digits. Even so, I have gained a bit of life experience. I would say that our young people need love, not prison bars.

“It is rare that all parties agree like this to help our communities. I want to know if my colleague thinks we can keep putting party politics aside to work together in the coming weeks.”
  • Question or comment in debate

    Relevance 48 of 100

    None of this question addressed the preceding speech or the topic under debate.

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  • Question or comment in debate

    Signal 27 of 100

    Much of this statement went to praise, blame, greetings, routine procedure or general stories rather than reasons, requests or specific points.

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Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, this bill, and the story and circumstances surrounding it, are moving. There is something special about it. My colleague is right to point that out. It is not often that everyone in this House can agree on something. It does happen, though not often enough for my liking, that we are all able to agree on doing what needs to be done for the benefit of the community as a whole. I will, of course, be giving a speech shortly. Unfortunately, it will probably be to repeat what I have already said. For now, however, I would like to ask my colleague a question. In his opinion, is this something that could happen again, at least in the coming weeks? Could we all set aside considerations that are sometimes a little too partisan and work together to do what is best for all our communities across Quebec and across Canada?

Government Orders ·

Building Canada Strong Act

“This bill gets rid of important rules we built over decades to protect the environment and workers. I do not think we should throw away all those protections just to fit the Prime Minister's plans.”
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, I think this historical overview of the situation is essential, and my colleague’s speech was very informative. That said, am I to understand that the democratic, environmental and labour protection rules adopted by the provinces, as well as all our parliamentary bodies and boards, are so detrimental to the Prime Minister’s vision of Canada that they need to be scrapped? Did nothing good come out of all that, really? Do we really need to eliminate everything that has been put in place over the past few decades?

PRIVATE MEMBERS' BUSINESS ·

Criminal Code

In response to a question from Kevin Lamoureux

“I do not want this bill to pass. Judges already have the tools they need to punish hate crimes against religious property. Mandatory minimum sentences do not work and have been ruled against the Constitution. We should trust judges to decide the right punishment for each case.”
  • A repeated line

    “The Bloc Québécois will be voting against this bill.”

    Said 3 times by 3 members since June 5.

    Every time it was said
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, first of all, mandatory minimum sentences have already been ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court of Canada, so I think it would be a real shame to try to rerun that failed script. We share the concerns about the issue of hate and preventing people from committing mischief against religious property. I believe I can say that all members of Parliament share that value. We do not want to live in a society where people commit mischief just to make a point. That said, there are different ways of tackling this issue of hate. What the Conservatives are proposing—and, with all due respect, I believe this is an argument I have heard rather frequently since I joined the House nearly 11 years ago—is the idea that the more people we can put behind bars, the safer society will be. It is a valid point, and one that can be defended, but that is not the kind of society I want to live in. I maintain, again respectfully, that it is not the sort of society the vast majority of people wish to live in either. The Bloc Québécois believes that we need to give our judges some judicial discretion. We have faith in our judges. They are not perfect. They are human and sometimes make mistakes, just like the rest of us, but they generally have a good head on their shoulders, good judgment and a lot of experience. They are able to assess every situation on its merits. Trying to force them to follow a certain criteria or framework that they cannot deviate from is a bit like having them supervised or putting them under parliamentary supervision, as I said earlier when talking to my colleague. It is one thing for Parliament to determine that a given situation constitutes a crime and to set out a maximum sentence, but minimum punishments are another matter. We are telling our judges that they cannot impose a lighter punishment than the one that has been set out. I think that is deplorable. Such parliamentary control over judicial sentencing is a dangerous tool that should be reserved for genuinely exceptional cases. I asked my colleague the following question: In this case, is she able to identify judges or courts that are so defective that we need to supervise them in that way? I did not get an answer to that question, but I do not think there are any such judges or courts. Earlier, I said that mistakes can happen. Judges are only human and can make mistakes. If a judge from the Quebec Superior Court, the Court of Quebec or any other provincial or other court makes a mistake, there are courts of appeal that can review that decision. If the litigants feel that the court of appeal also made a mistake, they can appeal to the Supreme Court, which is home to the country’s greatest legal minds. There are safeguards in place. Judges cannot hand down any punishment in any way they like without running the risk of having their decision appealed and overturned. The problem I have with minimum sentences is when people suggest, as some are suggesting here, that they should be imposed for pretty much every offence. Personally, I believe that sentences should be tailored to the circumstances, that we should trust the courts and our judges, who have, for the most part, been carefully selected. I will not repeat the criticisms I have already shared on several occasions regarding the judicial appointment process, which, in my view, needs improvement. Generally speaking, however, we can trust judges to adapt sentences with a view to building a better society, one where the principles of rehabilitation can be applied, for example, along with monetary or other types of compensation that will benefit society and contribute to the rehabilitation of offenders. We need balanced principles. These people decide what is or is not a crime, but they also decide not to send everyone who commits mischief to prison, but to rehabilitate them instead. I knew a young man who once graffitied the wall of a convenience store. Fortunately, the police arrested him, but his punishment was not to appear before a judge or go to jail. He had to clean off his graffiti and do a number of hours of community service for the store owner. They became friends. The young man did a lot for the convenience store owner because he realized that his graffiti, while not as bad as detonating a bomb, had caused damage and a lot of inconvenience, and that was something he had to realize. This young person was rehabilitated. I get that a convenience store and a place of worship are two different things. I understand that, but the principle is the same. Sometimes, I agree that a crime against a place of worship deserves a serious sentence, and in other cases, it deserves a sentence better suited to the circumstances. The only way to adjust these sentences is to let our judges use their discretion on a case-by-case basis. To no one’s great surprise, the Bloc Québécois will be voting against this bill, which, I would add, is unnecessary, given that section 430 of the Criminal Code already includes sentencing provisions for mischief. There are even specific provisions in subsection 430(4.1) that deal with mischief motivated by hate. If someone commits mischief inadvertently, to have a bit of fun or because they like to show off is one thing. If someone commits mischief because they harbour hatred toward a religious community or another group, that is something else entirely. That does happen, and there are provisions in the Criminal Code that our judges take into account, so that is reassuring. Before I conclude, I would like to say that we need some degree of consistency in the House. We pass a great many laws on various topics. We are not going to start contradicting ourselves from one law to the next. It would be counterproductive and harmful to society as a whole. However, our Conservative colleagues waged an all-out battle against Bill C-9, which was intended to combat hate. Why this all-out battle? It was largely because the Bloc Québécois had proposed an amendment seeking to ban what was known as the so-called religious exemption defence. Incitement to hatred was recognized as an offence under the Criminal Code unless someone did so based on a belief in a religious text, in which case they would be exempt from this charge both for incitement to hatred and for incitement to anti-Semitism. We said this should be removed from the Criminal Code. Our Conservative colleagues fought hard, arguing that it should remain in the Criminal Code, that people should have the right to incite hatred if their actions were based on a religious text. It made my hair stand on end, but that is what happened. For the sake of consistency, do our Conservative colleagues believe that someone who commits mischief against religious property would have a valid defence against that charge if they based their actions on a religious text that is part of their faith? I cannot say that I have figured out the answer to that, because the two positions are at odds with one another. I am very keen to hear a Conservative MP reconcile these two ideas and tell us how they deal with it. Is it acceptable for someone to commit mischief against religious property based on a religious text that is part of their faith?

“This bill forces judges to give minimum sentences for damaging religious property. Which judges have been too lenient to justify Parliament controlling their decisions? Also, does the member think it is acceptable if someone damages property to spread religious hatred?”
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, I have two questions for my colleague. We are aware that my colleague’s bill does not replace section 430 of the Criminal Code, which already provides for sanctions in this respect. It simply adds mandatory minimum punishments. Personally, I see this as somewhat of a parliamentary supervision of our courts, telling judges that they cannot impose a sentence that is less than the minimum punishment described. Does my colleague have any courts or judges in mind that deserve to be subject to such supervision? Can she give us some examples? I cannot think of any off the top of my head. Second, our Liberal colleague referred to Bill C‑9. In fact, our Conservative colleagues opposed an amendment I proposed, which sought to make it illegal to spread hatred or promote hatred based on a religious text. We wanted to remove that from the Criminal Code. Does my colleague think that, if somebody commits mischief in relation to property with the goal of inciting hatred on religious grounds, would that be acceptable? The mandatory minimum punishment—

Government Orders ·

Commissioner for Modern Treaty Implementation Act

“Everyone seems to agree on this bill, but the government has failed to pass it through several Parliaments. I wonder if the government actually cares about passing it, or if it just wants to look good to Indigenous people. I want to know why it took so long.”
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for her speech. I too have had the opportunity to work with her for 11 years, and it has been an honour. I think there is a bit of consensus on this bill. However, unless I am mistaken, this is at least the second, if not third, version of such a bill. Since this is a government bill, I do not understand why it could not be developed, finalized or passed in previous Parliaments. I am aware that it died on the Order Paper, but why did it die on the Order Paper? There was a Parliament from 2019 to 2021, and then another from 2021 to 2025. It seems to me that this bill could have been passed sooner, particularly if there is consensus. I wonder whether the government is actually serious or whether it just wants to tell indigenous people that it has introduced a bill. I want to hear what my colleague has to say about that.

Government Orders ·

Combatting Hate Act

“I support religious freedom. Does the member also believe the government should stay out of religion, the way Quebec does?”
  • Question or comment in debate

    Relevance 22 of 100

    Only 3% of this question directly addressed the speech or the topic being debated.

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Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his speech. In his speech, and in the speech by his Liberal colleague before him, I could hear a certain commitment to freedom of religion, which I share. We in the Bloc Québécois are committed to it as well. I would like to know his thoughts on that matter. Does he think we should keep protecting freedom of religion and ensure that the state does not meddle in these issues, the way that Quebec did with the Act respecting the laicity of the State, for example? Does that seem important to him? Does he support freedom of religion the way we do, in the Bloc Québécois?

In response to a question from Andréanne Larouche

“I hope this bill will help us fight hatred in our society.”
  • Reply to a debate question

    Relevance 49 of 100

    None of this reply addressed the specific point raised or the topic under debate.

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  • Reply to a debate question

    Signal 40 of 100

    Much of this statement went to praise, blame, greetings, routine procedure or general stories rather than reasons, requests or specific points.

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Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, I would first like to thank my colleague for her question and for the important work she does here, particularly regarding the status of women and seniors. Her work is invaluable. I am hopeful that Bill C-9 will help us combat the scourge, the cancer, as I said earlier, of hatred in our society.

In response to a question from Lori Idlout

“We need clear rules to deal with hate. I want the Attorney General to keep overseeing these cases because they have the right expertise.”
  • Reply to a debate question

    Relevance 100 of 100

    Of this reply, 100% addressed the question or point raised.

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Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, I just said this, and I do not want to repeat myself, but I think it is important to have guidelines. We are dealing with explosive issues. Hate is fuelling outbursts of anger online, on the streets, in schools, and just about everywhere. We want to try to tackle hate. For heaven’s sake, let us approach this with some wisdom and keep this guideline of entrusting general oversight to an expert—the Attorney General, in this case. That seems to me to be the wisest and most effective way to tackle this issue.

In response to a question from Jacob Mantle

“Adil Charkaoui clearly promoted hatred against Jewish people, but the government did not charge him. As a former lawyer, I understand why prosecutors did not take the case. The law allows people to spread hatred if they base it on a religious text, so the case had almost no chance of winning.”
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his question. He raises a good point. The Adil Charkaoui case shocked everyone in Quebec at the time, and probably everyone across Canada. I do not have the text in front of me, but this individual used biblical texts to say something along the lines of “Lord, eliminate all of Allah’s enemies, spare no one”. It was clearly an incitement to hatred against Jews. However, the Attorney General did not bring any charges in this case. It seems that my colleague has information that I do not have. He seems to know why no charges were brought. I do not know. I do know one thing, though. I practised law for 30 years before I came to Parliament, and I know one thing. There are quite a few cases in the Crown prosecutor’s office. Before deciding to assign a case to a lawyer and instructing them to bring charges, the director of the office will assess whether there is a reasonable chance of success or not. They will ask themselves whether they are getting involved in a case that is a non-starter or whether it makes sense. In Charkaoui’s case, if I had been the director of the Crown’s office at the time, with a provision like the one in subsection 319(3)(b) of the Criminal Code, which permits hatred to be spread if it is done in good faith based on a religious text, I would likely have said that my chances of success are virtually nil and I would not have wasted the lawyers’ time on such a case.

In response to a question from Alexis Deschênes

“We still need the Attorney General's approval before hate crime charges are laid. The Attorney General is an expert who can stop unfair trials, keep people from abusing the law, and make sure charges are only used for clear crimes.”
  • Reply to a debate question

    Relevance 100 of 100

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Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank my colleague from Gaspésie—Les Îles‑de‑la‑Madeleine—Listuguj, who always asks thoughtful questions. Working with him is always a pleasure. Obtaining the prior consent of the Attorney General is important to avoid misuse and abuse. Bill C‑9 endeavours to avoid certain hate-related abuses. The goal is to avoid excessive prosecutions or pitting one group against another. Rather than allowing people to bring proceedings without guard rails, the Attorney General is a subject matter expert who can set limits on prosecutions and ensure that charges are only laid in situations involving clear violations of the Criminal Code provisions.

In response to a question from Frank Caputo

“Nobody can spread hate in good faith. You cannot use religion to excuse hate against any group of people.”
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Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, it seems pretty clear. No one can tell me that it is possible to spread hate in good faith or to interpreting a religious text to read that hate is a good thing. The same goes for hating Jewish people, Muslim people, Christians, Catholics, Black people, white people or God knows who else. It may be possible, but can we agree that all of it is done in bad faith? Spreading hate in good faith is impossible, and doing it based on religious writings is even more impossible.

In response to a question from Kevin Lamoureux

“I want all members to vote for this bill. I believe everyone here acts in good faith. If members read the law carefully, they will see that we need to remove this old religious exemption.”
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, I share my colleague’s hope. I wish a bill like this one could pass unanimously. I have said it before and I will say it again: This fall, I will be marking 11 years in the House, and I have never met a member who was acting in bad faith. I profoundly disagree with many of them on many issues, but I think that they all defend their points of view in good faith because they truly believe in them. I also trust everyone’s intelligence, and I think that, if members carefully read the Criminal Code provisions on hate and the religious exemption, they should easily come to the conclusion that we need to move forward and get rid of this archaic provision that is holding us back.

“I support this bill because it stops people from blocking places of worship and punishes hate crimes more harshly. My party helped improve it. We made sure top government lawyers must approve hate crime charges to avoid bad cases. We used the Supreme Court's exact definition of hate. We also agreed to a compromise that protects religious discussions, as long as people do not use them to spread hate.”
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank my Conservative colleague. I cannot recall the name of his riding, but thanks to him, I have an attentive audience. I think this is the first time I have been in the middle of a speech and seen everyone rush into the House to listen to it. I thank my colleague. I was talking about the offence of intimidation in order to obstruct or interfere with access to a place of worship. That kind of behaviour is unacceptable. It is disrespectful and creates frustration, which often leads to acts of violence. We need to address this problem. Of course, protests must still be allowed. The Bloc Québécois cares deeply about that. We care deeply about these values regarding rights and freedoms. I see that some of my colleagues are starting to leave. I must be a little bit more boring now. I apologize. We are committed to freedom of movement, freedom of speech and freedom of thought. We have no objection to people demonstrating outside public places. We believe that it can be a wonderful expression of democracy when done respectfully. However, blocking access—for example, demonstrating outside a church to prevent people who attend that church from entering, or intimidating them to discourage them from returning—is disrespectful and unacceptable. Bill C-9 addresses this problem. There is also the issue of offences under the Criminal Code that are committed and additionally motivated by hatred. We must do something about this. Bill C-9 addresses this. Sentences may be increased by up to 10 years. Committing theft or another offence under the Criminal Code is one thing. There are penalties in place. A certain amount of evidence must be provided for each of these offences. However, if it can be established that the offence in question was also committed on grounds of hate, then the sentence may be increased significantly. Unfortunately, I think this is a good thing. I say “unfortunately” because, like most of us probably, I wish we never had to do this or worry about this issue. We should live in a society where, first of all, no one commits crimes, and second, when someone does, it certainly should not be for hateful motives that are unacceptable in our society. These are all important things that we welcome with great pleasure, though that is not quite the right word. We certainly agree with that. The Bloc Québécois felt that Bill C-9 was incomplete and had certain shortcomings, which is why we proposed a number of amendments. We are pleased that, following discussions, the minister came to the conclusion that this made sense. Some of the proposed amendments were adopted. The first was to restore the prior consent of the Attorney General before starting proceedings under these hate crime provisions. When we talk about hate, we are talking about a number of things that often stem from frustration, which is often due to a lack of respect. One thing leads to another and we see situations where the parties are at odds with each other and things get heated, if we can put it that way. Without this requirement to obtain the Attorney General’s consent, we run the risk of ending up with cases that might have little chance of success or that could, at the very least, turn into frivolous prosecutions. We do not want that. I think that we need to be prudent, remain calm and use some wisdom when dealing with these hate crime offences. Personally, I like to think that there are people in the Attorney General’s office who will keep a close eye on things. It was a Bloc Québécois amendment that sought to undo the elimination of the prior consent of the Attorney General from Bill C‑9. That provision will remain and will ensure prudent and reasonable management of this whole issue. Then there is the definition of hate. There was a definition in Bill C-9 that struck us as somewhat flawed. In fact, it was a sort of exercise in rephrasing the Supreme Court’s decision in the Keegstra case, changing a few words to try to come up with wording that was a bit more catchy or flashy. I think that was a bad idea. We wanted to stick to the definition established by the Supreme Court in the Keegstra decision, and the Minister of Justice agreed to do so. We therefore amended Bill C-9 to adopt the exact wording proposed by the Supreme Court. This will spare us legal setbacks, rulings that would delay the implementation of the law, or even hinder or overturn certain trials. Finally, there is the issue we have been discussing for some time now. It feels like when we talk about Bill C-9, that is all anyone talks about. Members will notice that I waited to bring it up, because I have spoken about it so often that everyone knows where I stand on the matter. I am referring to the religious exemption. Hatred, hate crimes, hate propaganda and anti-Semitism are already covered by section 319 of the Criminal Code. However, one of the subsections created an anachronism. I do not have the text in front of me, but I believe it states that no person shall be convicted of these offences if it can be proven that they spread hatred in good faith based on a belief in a religious text. That makes no sense. How can someone spread hatred in good faith? That seems contradictory to me. Canada, like Quebec, has also enshrined freedom of religion in law. In a state that claims to be secular, how can one claim that a person can twist and distort religious texts to make them say things that serve to spread hatred and that this constitutes a valid defence? I am sorry, but that seems unacceptable to me. We reached a compromise with the Minister of Justice because some people had been spreading a lot of propaganda about repealing the religious exemption, claiming that people would no longer be allowed to read the Bible, the Quran or the Torah. I find that troubling because members of the public accepted that idea, whether out of naivety or because they trusted elected officials in whom they believed, and now they are concerned about Bill C-9. We added subsection 319(2), which states that nothing in the Criminal Code “shall be construed as prohibiting a person from communicating a statement on a matter of public interest, including an educational, religious, political or scientific statement made in the course of a discussion, publication or debate, if they do not wilfully promote hatred against an identifiable group by communicating the statement...[or] if they do not wilfully promote antisemitism by condoning, denying or downplaying the Holocaust.” This clearly indicates that a person may make a statement of a religious nature as long as it is not done for the purpose of spreading hate. That seems like an acceptable compromise to me. I will stop there. I sense that my time is up. I was pleased to address the House on this issue.