Yves Perron

Mr. Speaker, Greeting · 11 wordsit is always a pleasure to see you in the chair.Greeting Procedure · 12 wordsToday, I am speaking to Bill C-20 on Build Canada Homes or, ProcedureAside · 10 wordsas it was originally mistranslated in French, “Bâtir Maisons Canada”.Aside Claims · 34 wordsIt is not in the Bloc’s nature to agree to the creation of federal Crown corporations that encroach on Quebec’s areas of jurisdiction. I would remind all members that housing is under Quebec’s jurisdiction. Procedure · 5 wordsHowever, there is always context, ProcedureClaims · 43 wordsand the current situation is extremely serious. The housing crisis that has been raging for some time is appalling. There is crippling inflation, which means people are struggling to find housing and often, or even regularly, have to cut back on other expenses. Reasoning · 5 wordsThis is a serious crisis. Procedure · 5 wordsThat is the first factor.Procedure Claims · 20 wordsThe second factor is that the federal government has finally, in the end, reached an agreement with the Quebec government. Reasoning · 16 wordsThat is one of the factors that may lead the Bloc Québécois to accept such measures. Claims · 24 wordsThe agreement very clearly states that Quebec’s jurisdiction, priorities and legislative framework will be respected, along with the Build Canada Homes investment policy framework. Reasoning · 13 wordsAn agreement has been reached, an urgent need exists and funds are available. Claims · 8 wordsWe are talking about $1 billion, after all.² Reasoning · 27 wordsWe cannot, in good conscience, say that we are rejecting the money in accordance with a general policy. The context here allows us to approve this bill, Claims · 6 wordsas we did at second reading.¹ Thanks · 17 wordsAt second reading, my colleague from Joliette—Manawan gave an interesting quote. I really like quoting this man.Thanks Positioning · 10 wordsHe is brilliant, intelligent and humble at the same time.Positioning Claims · 20 wordsMy colleague commended the government and the minister for trying to speed up efforts to address the affordable housing issue, Positioning · 13 wordsand I share his sentiment. We therefore applaud the effort and the investment, PositioningPromise · 17 wordsand we will support this bill because something needs to be done about housing, especially affordable housing. Procedure · 6 wordsThat said, we have some concerns.Procedure Claims · 62 wordsAffordable housing is not social housing. Build Canada Homes is focusing strongly on affordable housing. The government is creating a structure that will inevitably encroach on areas outside federal jurisdiction and giving it very broad powers. Among other things, Build Canada Homes will have the power to become a shareholder or partner of private companies operating in the area of affordable housing.¹¹ Positioning · 5 wordsWe have concerns about that, PositioningProcedure · 8 wordsand I must express them in the House.Procedure Positioning · 8 wordsWhat does that mean in the long term?Positioning Reasoning · 10 wordsIt is a bit like the current agreement with Quebec. Claims · 2 wordsIt exists, Positioning · 17 wordsbut how long will it last? Will it be renewed and will it still respect Quebec’s jurisdiction?Positioning Claims · 18 wordsUnfortunately, Canadian history has taught us that the federal government generally has a hard time respecting Quebec’s jurisdiction. Reasoning · 7 wordsThat is why we are on alert. Procedure · 11 wordsAll of this background information is intended to highlight this fact.Procedure Reasoning · 7 wordsSomething has to be done about housing. Procedure · 6 wordsThere is no getting around that.Procedure Claims · 16 wordsThe billion dollars that will be sent to Quebec will, I hope, provide some general relief, Reasoning · 7 wordsas long as this structure is effective. Procedure · 18 wordsSpeaking of effectiveness and structures, I would now like to talk about the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation, ProcedureClaims · 19 wordswhich already exists. Its mandate includes funding, program creation, support, and planning and validating this type of housing project. Positioning · 5 wordsWhy create a new structure?Positioning Claims · 25 wordsWe have raised that question before and I am raising it again today because we never really got an answer. The Liberals talk about agility, Positioning · 47 wordsor perhaps they just wanted to create something new. Governments love to say that they are responsible for creating one structure or another. Often, they create things and put the word “Canada” on it three or four times so that it sounds good when they say it.PositioningPartly on point Claims · 51 wordsIn this case, we are talking about Build Canada Homes. My argument about adding “Canada” to the names of things does not apply here because the “C” in CMHC already stands for Canada. CMHC stands for Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation, so this is not about adding Canada to the name.Partly on point Positioning · 17 wordsWhy then, do the Liberals want to create a new structure that operates in the same areas?Positioning Claims · 37 wordsMore importantly, the CMHC is at risk of losing a lot of its funding and programs. The government is telling us that it will maintain the current funding levels and any initiatives that have already been announced.⁶ Positioning · 9 wordsI honestly have to commend the government for that, PositioningReasoning · 9 wordsbecause at least it is not cutting programs mid-stream. Claims · 13 wordsHowever, that means that these programs will disappear when the funding runs out, Positioning · 4 wordsand that raises concerns.Positioning Claims · 14 wordsI am thinking, in particular, about the rapid housing initiative, which is working well. Aside · 43 wordsPeople had better take full advantage of it while it is still around, because it is not every day that a member of the Bloc Québécois says that a program is working well. If I am saying it, then it must be true.AsidePartly on point Positioning · 15 wordsIn that case, why sunset that program? We are concerned about all of these things.Positioning Claims · 99 wordsThis new structure is causing concern not only among Bloc Québécois MPs, but also among community organizations like FRAPRU, the Front d’action populaire en réaménagement urbain, a housing rights organization. Build Canada Homes is allowed to become a shareholder or partner in housing projects, and that is causing concern among FRAPRU’s members. They said, “The cat is out of the bag.⁵ After promising to build affordable housing with Build Canada Homes, the government’s new strategy...is starting to become clear. Build Canada Homes is an investment bank, plain and simple.” These comments were reported by my esteemed colleague from Joliette—Manawan. Reasoning · 6 wordsThat sums up the situation well. Promise · 45 wordsIt goes without saying that we will be on our guard and will carry out our role as a constructive opposition by monitoring the work of this entity and ensuring that it does not start to disregard Quebec’s jurisdiction or cast its net too wide.Vague promise Positioning · 19 wordsThis federal government has a tendency to overreach and it has far too much money relative to its responsibilities, PositioningClaims · 13 wordsyet it still manages to run up record deficits and accumulate stratospheric debts. Reasoning · 17 wordsWe must keep a close eye on it because it will meddle in whatever areas it can. Claims · 9 wordsAgain, housing is the responsibility of the Quebec government. Procedure · 15 wordsI would like to quote Quebec premier Daniel Johnson.⁹ This is not a recent quote.Procedure Claims · 52 wordsHe said this in 1967, a short time before I was born. Quebec considers the following areas to fall within its exclusive jurisdiction: culture, adult education, university research, trade training programs, industry-cooperative training programs, and training programs for the unemployed; urban development and housing; municipal structure; municipal powers; and land use planning. Reasoning · 9 wordsThat pretty much sums up what I just said, Procedure · 10 wordsand as I mentioned, this is not a new issue.Procedure Aside · 24 wordsI was not even born yet, and I am not exactly young anymore. I am not old, but I am not that young either.Aside Reasoning · 19 wordsThere would be a role for the federal government if everyone here made an effort to respect the Constitution, Aside · 26 wordswhich is rather ironic. I hear a member telling me he agrees. He might disagree with the rest of my statement, but it will be fun.Aside Positioning · 16 wordsWe are pretty much the only ones here who want to the Constitution to be upheld.Positioning Claims · 30 wordsIt is funny because we are the only ones who did not sign it. We all remember that it was done behind our backs in the middle of the night.Hidden agency Positioning · 7 wordsIt is still a pretty scandalous affair.Positioning Aside · 18 wordsI think I have managed to get one of my colleagues thinking. I am quite proud of myself.Aside Claims · 35 wordsOriginally, the federal government’s role was to transfer money to these jurisdictions, because it had a monopoly on taxation powers. Over time, attempts were made to balance the situation, but they never offset the shortfall. Reasoning · 11 wordsThis is the crux of the problem with Canada’s federal structure, Claims · 7 wordswhich is a federation, not a confederation. Positioning · 47 wordsThat was another historical rip-off. The government has too much power and more money than its responsibilities require, so it tends to take advantage of the situation to shine in the public eye. Its members love making announcements from a sun-drenched balcony, hair blowing in the wind.Positioning Aside · 12 wordsI use that sentence a lot, but the image speaks for itself.Aside Positioning · 70 wordsThe government wants to tell Canadians that it is generous and that it is going to hand out billions of dollars. That way, it gets credit and hopes that votes will follow. I am guessing that is the reasoning.Partly on point However, it would be nice if the contract that was signed behind our backs was respected. The Bloc Québécois has enough class to say that we are are stuck with that, PositioningPromise · 19 wordsand that we are going to play by the rules until the day comes that everyone knows about already. Claims · 30 wordsIt should surprise no one that our goal is not to stay here. Our goal is for the Government of Quebec to assume its full powers and manage its responsibilities. Procedure · 9 wordsI will use the example of Build Canada Homes.Procedure Promise · 12 wordsWe are saying today that, yes, we will take the billion dollars. Reasoning · 8 wordsWe need it, because the crisis is urgent. Claims · 25 wordsOttawa has an agreement with the Quebec government stipulating that decisions will be made by the Government of Quebec based on its jurisdictions and priorities. Positioning · 2 wordsWe agree.Positioning Claims · 46 wordsHowever, if we take a step back, $1 billion out of $6 billion represents 16.6% of the amount Canada allocated through Build Canada Homes, even though Quebeckers represent around 22% of the population.³⁴ That means that while Quebeckers are paying 22%, they will receive only 16.6%. Positioning · 30 wordsI know that I am going to get questions from government members, who will tell me that we are being ungrateful and that we should be happy and stop whining.PositioningPartly on point The ask · 9 wordsI would like them to think about those numbers. Positioning · 22 wordsI am sure that the thousands of people who are watching us at home agree that this does not make any sense.Positioning Reasoning · 90 wordsIf Quebec had control over all of its economic levers, then we would have a lot more money to put into housing. We would also do things more effectively because we are more in touch with the people. When we say that this falls under Quebec’s jurisdiction, it is because the provincial governments and the Government of Quebec are closer to the people and they are in a better position to provide services. The municipalities are even closer to the people. This should be done in partnership with municipal governments. Positioning · 12 wordsWho knows the needs of a community better than its municipal officials?Positioning Reasoning · 22 wordsThat is true as long as they are doing their job properly and they are in touch with people in their community. Claims · 24 wordsWhen the federal government comes in with its heavy-handed approach and imposes its priorities, we always have to insist that it respect our jurisdictions. Reasoning · 8 wordsThat is why we are always raising concerns. Aside · 66 wordsI hope that people are listening. I think that the parliamentary secretary is listening carefully. I am very pleased because I know that he will likely go and tell his caucus that what the guy from Berthier—Maskinongé said made a lot of sense and that his government should be vigilant. At least that is my hope, because I am sure Manitoba must also have regional priorities.Aside Reasoning · 13 wordsAll that the federal government would have do is simply transfer the money, Positioning · 12 wordsbut because it would not get enough credit, it creates structures instead.Positioning Reasoning · 7 wordsHaving an agreement with Quebec is important. Claims · 150 wordsHowever, it is appalling that every time we talk about housing—and the same holds for many other sectors, but housing in particular—the timelines grow longer. I remember that my former colleague, Denis Trudel, who I can call by name today because he is sadly no longer with us, long criticized this situation in his role as housing critic. I believe that it took four years the last time to reach an agreement with Quebec, even though the other provinces had already received the money.⁸ I could be wrong about the number of years, but it is around that many. It took nearly two years for the Canada housing infrastructure fund.⁷ The general funds have been released, but agreements still need to be reached. It is frustrating, exhausting and discouraging to see the federal government make announcements and reach agreements after a few months with other provinces, but not with Quebec. Positioning · 23 wordsWhy? It is because the federal government wants to stick its nose into everything and that does not bother Canadians in other provinces.Positioning Claims · 25 wordsFor them, the government is the federal government. This does not bother the provincial governments, because they have far fewer responsibilities than the Quebec government. The ask · 24 wordsI invite people from other provinces who might be listening to take a look at Quebec’s administrative structure and its social and economic fabric. Positioning · 10 wordsThey will see that the country of Quebec already exists.Positioning Aside · 16 wordsI often say this, and people sometimes think I am joking, but I really mean it.Aside Claims · 21 wordsRegional county municipalities, or RCMs, do not exist anywhere else. They are groupings of municipalities meant to foster greater regional cohesion.Partly on point Procedure · 9 wordsI will give an anecdotal example regarding electoral redistribution.¹²Procedure Claims · 11 wordsThe riding of Berthier—Maskinongé already had three RCMs and one city. Anecdote · 155 wordsI explained to the commissioner that I really wanted to properly represent the people of Saint-Sulpice, whom I salute by the way and whom I am very pleased to represent, but that, for the sake of territorial cohesion, it might be better to give me a larger area of land, such as Matawinie, which I already shared with my esteemed colleague from Joliette—Manawan. When I explained that to the commissioner, he said it made sense. When I asked him if he had any questions, he said no, that everything was very clear, that I had made a good point and that he would look into it. When I received the card a month later, I realized that he had not listened to me.¹³ It is no big deal, because Saint-Sulpice is a beautiful part of the country. I have come to know a lot of people there, and I am very proud to represent them.Anecdote Reasoning · 14 wordsHowever, this just goes to show that Canada could not care less about RCMs. Positioning · 6 wordsThey are not in its DNA, PositioningClaims · 70 wordswhereas they are a reality in Quebec. When it comes to supporting businesses, we are trying to explain to people in the other provinces that Quebec’s economic fabric is different from the rest of Canada. In Quebec, we have a very high concentration of small and medium-sized businesses that need more targeted support, including the infamous wage subsidy. The wage subsidy is like OAS for seniors aged 65 to 74. Promise · 7 wordsWe will not give up on this. Aside · 15 wordsI know that some people are sick and tired of hearing us talk about this, AsidePromise · 5 wordsbut we will not stop, Vague promisePositioning · 8 wordsbecause we stand up for such worthy causes.Positioning Claims · 56 wordsWage subsidies are intended to maintain the employment relationship between businesses and employees. As for the old age pension for people aged 65 to 74, it is intended to ensure fairness among seniors so that different categories based on age do not exist. That is age-based discrimination. It is an election promise and a housing measure.Off point Positioning · 5 wordsWe want to work together, PositioningProcedure · 8 wordsbut we are putting the government on notice.Procedure The ask · 9 wordsWe are asking the government to honour its commitments. Reasoning · 34 wordsI do not want to have to go on the attack again in three years when the agreement expires because Build Canada Homes might want to extend its reach into areas of Quebec’s jurisdiction.¹⁰ Claims · 10 wordsTwo years to reach an agreement is a long time. The ask · 7 wordsWe do not want any further delays. Positioning · 16 wordsSome people sometimes think we are here to block everything or to show that nothing works.Positioning Aside · 10 wordsHowever, we often simply point out that things rarely work.Aside The ask · 35 wordsThe next time federal funds are released, I would like to see less red tape, a quicker response to Quebec’s specific requests and no attempt to impose federal conditions on Quebec’s economy, society and politics. Aside · 41 wordsI am extending this olive branch to the parliamentary secretary. I assume he will accept it warmly and that he hears the message I am sending today. I am very keen to see what sort of question he will ask me.Aside Claims · 5 wordsThat said, we are separatists. Aside · 21 wordsI know some people do not like it when I talk about that, but I do because it is my job.Aside Promise · 29 wordsI mentioned earlier that we are going to take the billion dollars injected into Build Canada Homes because we want to make constructive progress here while awaiting Quebec’s independence. Claims · 44 wordsI pointed out to members that this figure represents 16.6% of the total amount Canada has invested in Build Canada Homes. Quebec accounts for approximately 22% of the population. Once again, we are not receiving the full amount that should be coming to us. Promise · 11 wordsWe will gladly take it and try to make it work, Claims · 6 wordsbut there is still some missing. Procedure · 4 wordsMy separatist argument stands.Procedure Reasoning · 47 wordsWe would not have had to wait two years for a policy to be implemented if we had not had to negotiate with a federal government that does not understand Quebec’s reality and that wants to impose its own rules and its own way of doing things. Procedure · 8 wordsThat is the essence of my speech today.Procedure Thanks · 7 wordsI thank my colleagues for their attention, ThanksProcedure · 6 wordsand I impatiently await their questions.Procedure