Adjournment Proceedings

An adjournment debate about PrescribeIT, an e-prescribing program run through Canada Health Infoway that received about $300 million in federal funding. Matt Strauss of the Conservatives said the program is not working, asked whether the health minister had the CEO fired after contacting the board, and called for answers and an Auditor General investigation. Jacques Ramsay, the Liberal parliamentary secretary, said the program was paused because doctors did not adopt it and that management problems led the minister to order an independent review, with which the Auditor General agreed. He added that payments to Canada Health Infoway have been suspended for the current fiscal year and that any future spending depends on the review’s findings.Written by AI from the debate. Updated .

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4 statements

Matt Strauss, Kitchener South—Hespeler

Conservative
“The government wasted $300 million on software that does not work. The health minister said she had the CEO fired after talking to the board, but the board chair says she never spoke to them. I want to know who really fired him. I also want the government to answer our questions and let the Auditor General investigate.”
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, it is such a pleasure to be back again for the late show. I shared the topic of my question with my colleague on this side. Questions regarding PrescribeIT are consistently not being answered in question period, so that is why we are here. I am not happy to be here this late. I imagine the parliamentary secretary across the way is also not happy. We could put an end to this if he would just answer the questions tonight. To put this into perspective for Canadians, $300 million was blown on a piece of software that did not work. That is $50 million more than the Liberals spent on the sponsorship scandal that brought down the Paul Martin government. I happened to bump into a popular television personality on Sparks Street today, and I mentioned to him that I was going to come do the late show about the PrescribeIT scandal. He asked, “What’s that?” I asked, “You go on CBC frequently and talk about politics, and you haven’t heard of this $300-million scandal?” Do they know, on the other side of the House, how many nurses $300 million could hire? Do they know how many hospital beds could be constructed with $300 million? When a financial catastrophe such as this happens, $300 million is how much money 300 Canadians who worked their whole life long for a paycheque would be lucky to see over the course of their whole life. The Liberals wasted the life’s work of 300 Canadians on something that did not work at all. Why are they not interested in getting to the bottom of this with us? My question in question period was very simple. Michael Green was getting $1 million a year to do nothing, as far as those of us on the health committee could tell. He got fired. The Minister of Health previously, in question period, told me that he got fired after she spoke with the board, but the chairman of the board, Dr. Peter Vaughan, told the health committee that the Minister of Health had never spoken to the board, so what the heck happened? This is important. The member opposite talked about accountability. Who is accountable? Is the Minister of Health the person who fires the CEO when he wastes a bunch of money, or is she not? The people who sent us here to the chamber just want to know what happened with the money. Finding out who was in charge of firing the CEO is step number one. It could be that this was all a miscommunication. It could be that the Minister of Health told her representative, Jocelyne Voisin, to fire Michael Green, and then that Jocelyne Voisin went to the board and did not tell Peter Vaughan that why she wanted to fire Michael Green was that the health minister told her to. It could be that Peter Vaughan was just left out of the loop, but if that is the case, let us get to the bottom of it. If that is the case, why would the health minister not say that this is what happened? Why would the Liberals on the health committee go to all the lengths they have gone to in order to shut down our investigation? He spoke at length about the third party investigation they are paying for. Is it independent? We have an independent Auditor General. The independent Auditor General was asked to look into this, but because the Liberals hustled in and got a third party to look into it before them, they have now brushed the Auditor General aside. Why are they not answering the questions of members of Parliament? Why are they not allowing the Auditor General to do their work? Are they not ashamed to be covering up a scandal larger than the sponsorship scandal? Is this how the member opposite wants to spend his parliamentary career: coming here late at night to continue to obfuscate the questions we ask that are reasonable and that our constituents, every Canadian taxpayer, wants to and deserves to hear the answer to? Did the health minister, or did she not, fire Michael Green through her representative on the board?

Jacques Ramsay, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Safety

Liberal
“The program did work, but it was stopped because doctors did not support it. It had management problems, so the minister ordered an independent review. The Auditor General agreed with this plan and chose not to investigate. We will not spend any more money on this program until the review proves it helps doctors and Canadians.”
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Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, first, I would like to comment on the remarks made by the member opposite. He said that the program did not work. That is not entirely accurate. In fact, the program has been relaunched. An agreement has been signed with at least one province to date. In fact, what was found was that the program did not have the full support of the medical community, which is why it was discontinued. That said, it does not necessarily mean that the program was not working. Second, with regard to what happened in terms of governance, I will reiterate what the minister has already said, which is that there were shortcomings. That is why she launched an independent review of the organizational structure and mandate of Canada Health Infoway. This approach was welcomed by the Auditor General, who herself concluded that there was no need for her to conduct her own investigation. She was satisfied with this approach. Given that the Auditor General was satisfied, I think we should wait to see the findings of this review. The government has already indicated that it will take note of them and ensure that the Canada Health Infoway program becomes operational again. For now, no supplementary budget has been allocated because we take the management of public funds seriously. No further payments will be made until we receive the findings and an assurance that the money invested in Canada Health Infoway is meeting the needs of the medical community and Canadians.

Matt Strauss, Kitchener South—Hespeler

Conservative
“The government gave mixed answers about whether this money is being spent. Almost no doctors or pharmacists want to use this program, so it is not working. I want a clear answer to my question: did the health minister fire Michael Green or not?”
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, that is a very interesting point. I later asked the Minister of Health if she would be disbursing the funds. She said no. However, a week later, her policy spokesperson, I believe his name is Alexandre Bergeron, told The Globe and Mail that they would be disbursing the funds. I would like the member to confirm, based on the statements of Alexandre Bergeron from the minister’s office, whether it is in fact the case that no funds are flowing through right now. That is a really important point. I have a second point. The member talks about the program working, but 95% of doctors refused to use the program, and that is before the Liberals put the 20¢ copay on the pharmacist. Every pharmacist group in the country that I spoke with said they were not going to use the program. They made a program that nobody wants to use. I would say that it is not working. Why will the member not just answer the question? Did the health minister act to remove Michael Green or did she not? It is a very simple question. It does not matter if it is before the courts or not. The member has absolute privilege to give a true answer here and tell the people of Canada what happened with the money. Did the health minister fire Michael Green?

Jacques Ramsay, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Safety

Liberal
“The health minister stopped funding Canada Health Infoway this year. We will not send them any more money until we know it will help Canadians. The Auditor General will review this work, and we will share the results with her.”
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, to answer my hon. colleague’s question, the Minister of Health has suspended payments to Canada Health Infoway for the current fiscal year. Since then, no funds have been disbursed to the organization, and we have made it clear that our investments will resume only once we are certain that the money will be spent in the best interests of Canadians. The Auditor General has indicated that she wishes to review the results of this work, and we look forward to sharing them with her as soon as they are available. This is essential to ensuring that Canadians can trust how their money is spent. That is what this government intends to do.

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