Report Stage

Bill C-11, Military Justice System Modernization Act · Report stage · now law Where it stands

What the law does

The law removes the military's authority to investigate or try sexual offences under the Criminal Code that are alleged to have taken place in Canada. It alters appointment processes for military prosecutors, defence counsel, and the provost marshal, who is renamed the Provost Marshal General. The law also expands who can become a military judge, removes those judges from the summary hearing system, and lets people acting for victims request a liaison officer.

Official text (opens in a new tab)

86 statements

Abdelhaq Sari, Bourassa

Liberal
“I support this bill. It permanently moves the investigation and prosecution of military sexual assault cases to civilian courts. Victims need an independent justice system outside of the military chain of command.”
  • A repeated line

    “All new charges of sexual offences under the Criminal Code have been brought in the civilian justice system.”

    Said 4 times by 4 members since April 23.

    Every time it was said
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, we are here today to debate a bill that means a great deal to me, a bill focused on issues that transcend partisan divides. Bill C-11, the military justice system modernization act, is a practical, structured and too long-awaited answer to realities that we can no longer ignore. I am rising to speak to an issue that affects the public trust, the dignity of the women and men who bravely serve their country and the very integrity of our institutions: a profound and lasting cultural transformation of the Canadian Armed Forces. For too long, members of the armed forces, especially but not exclusively women, have carried a silent burden. Courageous testimony has brought to light disturbing realities: sexual misconduct, abuse of power, a climate of fear and, at times, a sense of persistent impunity. This testimony is not an exception to the rule. It is the rule, and it points to a systemic problem. Ad hoc solutions are not enough to address a systemic problem. What it takes is a profound, thoughtful, courageous and coherent transformation enshrined in law. That is exactly what Bill C‑11 proposes, supported by recommendation 5 of the Hon. Louise Arbour, former Supreme Court justice. Bill C-11 proposes significant amendments to the National Defence Act. It aims to modernize a military justice system that, in some respects, has failed to keep pace with the changing values and expectations of Canadian society. Basically, it strengthens accountability, reinforces institutional independence and ensures compliance with the standards of fairness that Canadians expect. As introduced, Bill C-11 removes the Canadian Armed Forces’ jurisdiction to investigate and prosecute Criminal Code sexual assault offences and gives that jurisdiction to civilian authorities. This is not a new approach. It is in keeping with the interim directive adopted in December 2021 based on Justice Arbour’s interim recommendation. Since then, all new charges of sexual offences under the Criminal Code have been shifted to the civilian justice system. The directive has proven its worth. Bill C-11 enshrines it in law and makes it permanent. Any attempt to undermine or undo the progress made over the past five years would constitute an unacceptable step backwards and a direct affront to the victims and survivors who have had the courage to speak out. The Liberal government has chosen to take action, not with symbolic gestures, but with a clear and measurable commitment to bring about lasting change. This has resulted in the strengthening of independent report mechanisms, improved support for victims, greater transparency in disciplinary processes and a renewed commitment to accountability. Let us be clear, however, that changing an institutional culture cannot be achieved through legislation alone. It requires time, consistency, and above all the political courage to challenge structures deeply rooted in an institution’s history—in this case, the military. It is in this context that Justice Arbour’s report marked a turning point. This report did not merely identify the flaws, it charted a course forward, a demanding but necessary one. Among its recommendations, recommendation five stands out for its scope and the clarity of the message it sends to all of Canadian society. Some might wonder why the transfer to civilian courts is so fundamental. The answer is simple, but it touches on the very essence of what we mean by justice. Justice must not only be done, but must also be seen to be done independently and impartially. However, in a system where the chain of command plays a central role in every aspect of a service member’s professional life, there exists a structural perception of a conflict of interest whether we like it or not, whether we accept it or not. For a victim, this perception alone may be enough to discourage any reporting. Imagine what it is like for someone who has to report an assault in a context where their career, performance reviews and professional future depend directly or indirectly on the very organization that is handling their complaint. This is not just a procedural matter. It is a matter of fundamental trust, and without trust, there can be no justice. By transferring these cases to the civilian system, we are introducing a crucial institutional distance and ensuring genuine independence, which strengthens the credibility of the process and sends a clear message to victims that their voices matter, their safety is a priority and their cases will be handled with all the rigour and impartiality they deserve. To those who cite the unique nature of the military context as a reason to maintain internal jurisdiction, I would say that, when it comes to serious criminal offences, especially sexual offences, the highest standards of independence and expertise must prevail. The civilian system has these capabilities. It has the necessary resources and specialized training, and, above all, it has the experience required to handle these cases with the sensitivity and rigour they require. A strong chain of command is not about absolute control. It is about trust. Trust is built on justice, actual justice and perceived justice. Transparency is also important for building trust. Above all, responsibility and accountability are essential. Enshrining recommendation five in law does not weaken our military institutions; it strengthens them. It recognizes that certain functions need to be performed outside the chain of command to ensure their integrity. Integrity is the very foundation of any trustworthy institution. I will even repeat that statement by saying that integrity is the sine qua non of any trustworthy institution. A strong military is not only defined by its ability to defend our borders; it is also defined by the respect it affords to each and every one of its members. It is also defined by its ability and, above all, its willingness to evolve. In conclusion, refusing to change means accepting that the same injustices will persist. We have a collective responsibility here to reject that. Today, we have a real opportunity, an opportunity to transcend partisan lines, an opportunity to turn our commitments into action, an opportunity to send a clear message that dignity, security and justice are non-negotiable. Behind every reform are individuals, women and men who have chosen to serve this country with courage and dedication. They deserve more than our gratitude. They deserve a safe environment, a fair system and an institution that reflects the values they uphold. That is precisely what we have a responsibility to build here.

Jeff Kibble, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford

Conservative
“The government ignored experts and victims by changing this military justice bill without committee approval. Civilian courts cannot handle most military sexual misconduct cases. I want to know the government's plan to prosecute these crimes.”
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, clearly the member opposite understands neither the bill nor military chain of command. Removing the committee’s amendments, ignoring overwhelming evidence of the experts and MST survivors and, even worse, adding amendments without going to committee is not democracy, transparency or collaboration. The significant majority of military sexual misconduct cases will not meet the threshold of civilian jurisdiction, and of the cases that do meet the threshold, the civilian justice system has testified that it has the capacity to deal with only a fraction of them. Knowing that, what is the Liberals’ plan to prosecute these cases and bring justice in the majority of them? Are they just going to give a free pass to predators?

Abdelhaq Sari, Bourassa

Liberal
“People in the military must be able to report problems without worrying that their bosses will hurt their careers. This bill keeps the reporting system independent so victims feel safe coming forward.”
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Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, my colleague may not share my point of view, and our understanding of the matter differs, as he pointed out. I would like to thank him for that. In this matter, what we are saying is that someone in the same chain of command could harm a complainant’s career. We want to maintain that independence. We want to give that freedom to the person who wishes to file a complaint. We want the person to have that freedom, that comfort and that peace of mind once the complaint is filed. We are always open to suggestions, but as I said, we do not necessarily share the same understanding on both sides.

Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton

Bloc Québécois
“I agree with sending cases to civilian courts. But civilian courts might sometimes decide that a case is better handled by the military. My party proposed a change to allow this, and the Liberals want to remove it.”
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, I heard my colleague talk about intentions. We agreed on the intentions behind the bill. I would remind everyone that we voted to refer the bill to committee. That meant we were also listening to the victims. I agree with what my colleague said in support of the civilian courts. He praised their expertise, and I agree 100%. That said, it is possible that, in light of that very expertise, the civilian courts may consider that in certain specific cases it would be better for matters to remain within the military sphere. Our amendment allowed for this, but the Liberals’ Motion No. 5 will remove that possibility.

Abdelhaq Sari, Bourassa

Liberal
“We want to keep the option to use civilian courts. They have the right skills and experience to handle these cases, and we want to make it easier for victims to file a complaint.”
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, I fully understand my colleague’s point, but the fact remains that we do not want to remove that possibility. Once again, there is a difference in understanding on both sides of the House. I can simply say that the civilian courts have the skills, understanding and experience in this regard. Furthermore, once again, we want to work with all parties on all sides to ensure that complainants are given every opportunity to make a complaint.

Kevin Lamoureux, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Liberal
“We should pass this bill. It follows Justice Arbour's recommendations by moving military cases to civilian courts, which is what victims asked for. I want the member to explain why it is important to follow through on this report.”
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the comments from my colleague in regard to the significance of the legislation. In Justice Arbour’s report, there were 48 recommendations. I believe we have implemented 36 of those recommendations, or possibly more. The essence of this legislation would be to implement the core of what Justice Arbour was asking us to do: transfer jurisdiction to the civilian process. She consulted, listened to and worked with, directly and indirectly, well over 1,000 people, I suspect. Many of them were direct victims. We need to be respectful of the legislation that is before us, and ultimately pass it. Could the member provide his thoughts in regard to why it was important not only to receive the report from Justice Arbour but also to follow through with it? That is exactly what the legislation would do.

Abdelhaq Sari, Bourassa

Liberal
“This bill follows the recommendations we received. We want to make it easier for people to make complaints. We want everyone in the military to be treated fairly and equally under the law.”
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Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, I sincerely thank my colleague, the member for Winnipeg North. What we presented today is completely in line with Justice Arbour’s recommendations and the testimony we heard in committee. Once again, we are a responsible government. We are a government that wants to make room for anyone who wants to file a complaint. We are a government that believes every member of the military should receive equal justice for themselves and everyone who works with them and where every member should also feel that justice to be equal.

Stephanie Kusie, Calgary Midnapore

Conservative
“Military members who survive sexual assault should get to choose whether to report it to the military system or the civilian system. The government is forcing all cases into the civilian system without giving it more resources. We must support victims by letting them make this choice.”
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, I thank all my colleagues. It is always a pleasure to be here in the House to speak on behalf of the good people of Calgary Midnapore. The people of Calgary Midnapore, of course, reside in the wonderful province of Alberta, and I am going to start my speech today with great words that came out of a campaign in Alberta in the year 2015. Those words are “I believe you”. This was a campaign created in 2015 by the Association of Alberta Sexual Assault Services to support victims of sexual assault. When someone comes forward and claims that they are a victim of sexual assault, there should be no other response than “I believe you”, yet 97% of sexual assaults go unreported. That means 97% of persons who have been the victims of sexual assault do not have the courage to come forward to tell someone their story, what happened to them, because they are unsure that they will hear the words “I believe you”. This is the one line that a survivor of sexual assault needs to hear. What we are hearing today from the government, what it is saying to victims of sexual assault, is that it does not believe them. The Liberals need to say to these victims that they believe them. This was the crux of this incredible campaign that came out of Alberta: “I believe you”. Of course, Conservatives are proud of and support all of our men and women in uniform, who serve Canada. We believe that we must continue to address sexual misconduct, as well as discrimination, racism and other forms of harassment, because all military members deserve to have a safe and respectful workplace. The greatest way we can do that today is by saying that, regarding Bill C-11, “I believe you”, that we believe them, that the House believes them. The previous Conservative government accepted all recommendations from the Deschamps report to eliminate all forms of sexual harassment in the CAF, but after 11 long years of Liberal government and two more reports from Supreme Court justices, victims of military sexual misconduct are still no closer to having their cases dealt with properly. The Liberals’ only idea on military sexual misconduct is to force those cases into the overburdened and even slower civilian justice system without providing resources to local police forces or provincial courts to deal with military cases. When victims of sexual assault hear that these processes are being delayed, that they are being pushed off by the federal government, what they are hearing is that the government does not believe them. What these victims need to hear is “I believe you”. The Liberals are trying to do what is politically expedient. They want to punt this off to the provinces and municipalities by pushing sexual assault cases off their table and into an already overburdened civilian police and court system. We have seen this time and time again. I think of a great example in my incredible riding of Calgary Midnapore, which is cell phone towers. Constituents are very concerned every time another cell phone tower goes up. They create a petition that they bring it to my attention, and I forward it to the Minister of Industry. I say that my constituents are very concerned about these cell phone towers, about the impacts that they will have on their safety and well-being. What the minister does is punt it off to the municipal level of government. She puts off making a decision and taking responsibility for the actions of the government, particularly on an issue that is so relevant to the health and well-being of Canadians, certainly as much as the issue being discussed here today is. However, this is what Liberals do. They deflect responsibility. They try to muddy the waters by not taking jurisdiction of the decision. Instead, they try to defuse the decision-making process to avoid the responsibility. That is what we are seeing here today. Instead of listening to the legal experts and increasing independence in the military justice system, the Liberals want to ensure that they can politically interfere with ministerial directives and ensure that the director of defence counsel services, the director of military prosecutions and the provost marshal general stay under the thumb of the chain of command of the chief. That is what we are seeing. It is essentially the Minister of Defence saying, “I don’t believe you”. Conservatives carefully studied Bill C-11 to ensure concerns from all stakeholders were taken into consideration. We are proud of the progress we made at the Standing Committee on National Defence to improve Bill C-11 and to ensure that the voices of victims and survivors were heard and considered in the studying and amending of this legislation, but most of the witnesses at the committee are asking that victims of military sexual assault be given the choice of what justice system they make their report to. Is that not the very least that we can do for these victims, these individuals who have received the greatest offence a person can possibly go through, to have their person violated? The very least we can do is give them power in the decision to decide how this abuse of trust would be handled, but the government is not willing to do that. The Liberals are essentially saying, “I don’t believe you”. The brave men and women of the Canadian Armed Forces have put in the work for decades to ensure that no one else has to experience what they went through. It is time for all of us to stand up, be allies to them and say, “I believe you”. We need to do what we know is the right thing for the next generation, for both our sons and our daughters, not only for those serving in the CAF, but across Canada. As the mother of a son, I will tell members that my husband and I have had this conversation with him. We hope he will carry it forward with him in all the decisions he makes. Removing victim choice on how to report sexual offences does nothing to solve the problem. It only deepens it. After 11 long years, the Liberals are, once again, letting down the brave men and women of the Canadian Armed Forces by saying, “We don’t believe you”. If Parliament is serious about doing all it can to support those who serve, then all members of Parliament must retain the ability for military victims to choose which reporting path is the safest, most credible and most operationally workable for them, regardless of where they are in Canada. We need to speak with one voice as a House and say this to them: “We believe you. We recognize what you have been through, and we honour you by giving you the choice with how you are going to deal with this violation that has occurred to you. We believe you.” In closing, I want to share another incredible story about Alberta, and it is the #NotInMyCity campaign, which was created to deal with the horrific problem of human trafficking. We have seen the incredible ambassador Paul Brandt and heard his message in his song Alberta Bound. Extending beyond musical capabilities, as he and his wife are true songbirds, they advocate for those who are the victims of human trafficking. We should say each and every day, not only in my great province of Alberta, but also across Canada and in this chamber, “We believe you” and “I believe you”. Members of CAF should be given the opportunity to make their decisions as such.

Kevin Lamoureux, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Liberal
“We are not passing our job to the provinces. We brought this bill forward to stop sexual violence and harassment in the military. An expert recommended moving these cases from military courts to civilian courts, and we are following that advice to protect survivors.”
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, the member made reference to the federal government wanting to punt its responsibility off to the provinces. Nothing could be further from the truth. The reality is that the motivating factor behind us doing this in the first place was to deal with the harassment, in all forms, and sexual violence that was taking place in the Canadian Armed Forces. That is the reason why former Justice Arbour was brought in. That is the reason why 48 recommendations were made. One of them, the 40th recommendation, talked about transferring to the civil process as opposed to the military process. That is the essence of the legislation. Listening to survivors is important. I wonder if the member might want to revisit the history.

Stephanie Kusie, Calgary Midnapore

Conservative
“The member should not lecture me about harassment when ministers in his party have been found guilty of it. He should also be careful about praising Louise Arbour, because respected legal experts have questioned her judgment.”
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, it is very hard to listen to this member talk about harassment when he sits with ministers who have been not only accused but also found guilty of harassment. That is disgraceful. I do not like to be lectured by a member of a party whose ministers have been found guilty of harassment. I will mention a quote: “Arbour’s knowledge of international law is as questionable as her understanding of morality”. That is a direct quote from Harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz, a well-regarded international jurist. He said this in 2006. The member should think about who he is referring to as an example.

Mario Beaulieu, La Pointe-de-l'Île

Bloc Québécois
“I think the government rejected changes to this bill just to avoid upsetting military leaders. These changes included creating an independent office to handle sexual misconduct and letting military judges leave the armed forces. I want to know what my colleague thinks about this.”
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, I was listening to our colleague earlier, and I wonder if the government’s rejection of the amendments is not, in part, an attempt to avoid upsetting the military hierarchy too much. Among the amendments, there was one that sought to create an inspector general’s office dedicated to addressing sexual misconduct within the military. There was also an amendment calling for veterans to be eligible to be appointed as judges and for military judges to be able to leave the armed forces. What are my colleague’s thoughts on that?

Stephanie Kusie, Calgary Midnapore

Conservative
“The Bloc Québécois and the Conservatives worked hard to improve this bill. My party supports moving the bill forward with the changes we agreed on, but the NDP has chosen to side with the Liberals instead.”
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Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, I know that the Bloc Québécois and the NDP worked hard with Conservative members of the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights to move this bill forward. I am pleased to see that the members of the Bloc Québécois are still keen to try to achieve the goal of Bill C-11. Unfortunately, I understand that we have lost the NDP member, who decided to join the Liberals. The Conservative MPs and I agree on most of the ideas for moving Bill C-11 forward, and that includes the amendments.

Carol Anstey, Long Range Mountains

Conservative
“I want my colleague to say more about how this bill can support victims, show we believe them, and give them choices.”
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, I want to give my hon. colleague an opportunity to put a fine point on this powerful message that she has communicated with respect to communicating “I believe you” to victims, and how choice is so important to empower them in these situations, as it relates to this legislation. I want to give her that opportunity because it is such a powerful point.

Stephanie Kusie, Calgary Midnapore

Conservative
“Victims of sexual assault need to know they are believed. The government is not doing that, and it needs to start by passing this bill.”
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Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, before doing the “I believe you” campaign, the researchers talked to numerous victims of the most heinous crime a person can receive, to be violated as a person. What the researchers were told, time and time again, was that the victims just wanted to hear someone say, “I believe you”. Right now, the Liberal government is not saying “I believe you” to the victims of sexual assault, and that needs to change. It starts with Bill C-11.

Marc Dalton, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge

Conservative
“The Liberals are cutting off debate on this military justice bill and removing the changes made in committee. Victims asked for the choice between military and civilian courts, but this bill ignores them and sends cases to backlogged civilian courts. I want the government to listen to victims of sexual assault and fix this bill.”
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Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, this debate is an important one. I was reflecting, as I was preparing my comments, on the new Liberal majority. I thank the members of Parliament who double-crossed the voters who elected them one year ago. We are in a situation now where the Liberals have their cherished majority government. I was thinking of this new age, and I had a flashback of when I was in grade 3 and living on a small military base in north Vancouver Island called Holberg. I was a proud member of Gary’s Singing Worms. There was a song we sang. You are probably too young to remember it, Mr. Speaker. It was called The Age of Aquarius. It was a hit in the Broadway production Hair. Some of us have been losing our hair in the meantime. I will not sing the song. Some members might know the words, but I will refresh everyone’s memory. It came out in 1969, the “flower power” era of love and peace. Some of the words are as follows: This is the dawning of the Age of Aquarius Age of Aquarius Aquarius Aquarius Harmony and understanding Sympathy and trust abounding No more falsehoods or derision Golden living dreams of visions I have some words that could very well have been penned by the Liberal Prime Minister. They have the same tune: This is the dawning of the Age of Majority, Our Majority, Liberal Majority Harmony? We can stop pretending Questions asked will be met with no bending More secrecy and more derision One-Party rule with tunnel vision Committees bring recommendations We Liberals will ignore consultations No more listening or debate Just whipped votes, no need to wait Lovely Majority, Liberal Majority I am surprised that my Liberal colleagues are not clapping at that. An hon. member: Oh, oh! Marc Dalton: Mr. Speaker, we have moved into a new realm of secrecy and of control. The Liberal member is sighing, as if it were not true, but he knows it is true. What was the first thing the Liberals did when they got their majority last week? They moved several committees in camera, into secrecy, and shut down debate on things that are uncomfortable for them. Even the Liberal media organ, the CBC, now that the Liberals are established, is perplexed and critical of this move and says this is sending the wrong message. We are seeing the same attitude in the Liberals’ imposing closure on debate on this important bill. They have shown their true colours toward victims of sexual harassment in the military with how they have pushed through and are pushing through Bill C-11 without the amendments that were passed at committee. That is very unfortunate. It really boils down to control and secrecy, and we will talk a bit more about that. This debate should not be about procedure. It must not be about politics. It must be about the survivors. It must be about veterans and serving members of the Canadian Armed Forces who came before the Standing Committee on National Defence and did something extraordinarily brave. They relived some of the most painful moments of their lives, publicly and on record, because they believed that Parliament was finally prepared to listen. Let us imagine someone’s testifying about one of the worst experiences of their life and then having the government refuse to listen to their voice. They testified about sexual assault. They testified about betrayal by institutions they trusted. They testified about being silenced. Above all, they testified about choice: the right to choose which justice, military or civilian, would be most effective and where they could see justice served. Therefore, I ask the House this: Why is the government now moving to shut down debate on Bill C-11 before those concerns are fully and honestly addressed? The government tells Canadians that the bill is about supporting victims and restoring trust. If that is true, why are the ministers afraid of scrutiny? Why impose time allocation on legislation that would directly affect survivors of military sexual trauma? If the government is confident that the bill reflects what survivors want and need, then let Parliament test that. Let the arguments be heard. Let victims know that their voices matter, not just at committee but also here in the House, where laws are made. This is about choice. People asked for a system that treats them with dignity, not suspicion. At committee, we listened. Conservatives worked constructively across party lines, with colleagues from the Bloc and the NDP, to improve Bill C-11. Together we brought forward amendments rooted directly in witness testimony, especially the nearly universal request that the victims of military sexual assault be able to choose which justice system they report to. That is what collaboration looks like. That is what respect for survivors looks like. However, that stands in stark contrast to the Liberal government’s approach. For months, the bill has sat idle. The government did not act. It did not engage meaningfully with victims. Then, only after securing a political procedural advantage, the government moved to rush the bill through and undo the very amendments survivors had fought for. This is not leadership. This is political expediency. I can understand why the Liberals are this way, because they have gotten in a lot of trouble around the issue of sexual harassment in the military. I think of Harjit Sajjan. He was censured publicly at the House of Commons in 2021 around the issue of the cover-up of sexual harassment. This is a shame. What are the Liberals doing? There is an expression for that. The more things change, the more they stay the same. The more it changes, the more it is the same. It is the same old, same old. Actually, it is not the same old, same old. It is getting worse. The Liberals would now give the minister the power to intervene and have his way. This would be superseding justice. That is not good, because it is political expedience and political cover-up. This is not what Canadians need, and it is not what the members of the armed forces need. It is a shame. Instead of increasing the independence of military prosecutors, defence counsel and the provost marshal, the minister would ensure that these roles would remain under political and institutional control. This would do nothing to prevent sexual misconduct. It would deepen the mistrust. There is an expression by former British prime minister William Gladstone in which he said, “Justice delayed is justice denied.” Gladstone was a prime minister of the U.K. at the time of the Confederation of Canada, the 1860s. It basically says that if legal remedy comes too late, it means that people are getting no justice at all. That is what is happening. The Liberals would be putting the cases into the civilian courts, but the courts are already clogged up. I was at a home show in Maple Ridge over the weekend and talked to hundreds of people, including police officers and people in justice. They were telling me that people are being arrested and the prosecutors are not moving the cases forward because the courts are jammed full. It is taking so long that they are releasing people. This is what the Liberals’ solution is: just to put the matter through into a jammed-up system where they can bury it and protect themselves. This is about self-protection and self-preservation. Shame on them. Let us get a bill that really reflects what has been brought forward by the witnesses, to protect and help our armed forces and those who have suffered sexual assault.

Kevin Lamoureux, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Liberal

Linked statement

“This bill moves certain military justice cases into civilian courts, which follows the advice of an independent report. I want to know if the member supports having civilian courts handle military sexual abuse cases.”
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, the first thing that happened last week when the majority of seats came to the Liberal Party was that, in collaboration, we passed a Conservative motion. Today we have before us a very important piece of legislation that would transfer files from the military justice system into the civilian justice system, which is a reflection of a report that was provided to the government a while ago. The report made it clear that this is what was being requested by an incredible individual. Based on the member’s comments, does he support at all having the civilian process deal with military sexual abuse files?

Marc Dalton, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge

Conservative
“I want victims to have a choice between civilian and military courts so they can get justice faster. Civilian courts are too backed up right now.”
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Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, we support choice for the victims in where they can see the quickest route to justice. Right now the civilian system is really clogged up. What we believe in is choice, not just for victims in Canada but also internationally in the military. You made reference to the report. You mentioned a few times Madam Arbour—

Marc Dalton, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge

Conservative
“We asked Madam Arbour to speak to the committee about her report and other reports. She refused to come.”
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, that is a rookie error, but I am not a rookie. Madam Arbour was asked to come to committee to testify. She did not come to committee. We wanted her to respond to the reports, to witnesses and to other reports that have also been done, the Deschamps report and the Fish report. She would not respond.

Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton

Bloc Québécois
“The government is undoing changes that the committee voted for when the opposition had a majority. Now the Liberals have built a majority, and they are cutting off debate. I want to know if my colleague thinks it is wrong to force an end to debate on such an important topic.”
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague, who provided a very good outline of the situation, describing a government that was not supposed to have a majority, but that has managed to build one anyway, a government that is demonstrating its utter arrogance, particularly by reversing amendments that were adopted by a majority of committee members. The composition in place at the time was a majority of opposition party members in the House and in committee, as democracy had intended. That was before some members crossed the floor. Now, on top of all that, the Liberals lost their vote, but now that they have a majority, they are trying to reverse that vote with these amendments, in addition to imposing closure on us. They have been telling us all along that they are open to discussing things with others, but now they are imposing closure. Does my colleague not find it outrageous that, on top of everything else, the icing on the cake is a closure motion on a subject as sensitive as this one?

Marc Dalton, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge

Conservative
“I agree with the member. The Liberals are putting their own political interests ahead of victims and justice.”
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Mr. Speaker, the member is absolutely right. What the Liberals are doing in such a serious matter is appalling. To protect their own interests, they are putting their politics ahead of the pain of victims and respect for justice. What they are doing is really terrible.

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