Canadian Space Launch Act

Bill C-28, Canadian Space Launch Act · Second reading · now at second reading in the House Where it stands

What Bill C-28 would do

The bill would create legal rules under the Aeronautics Act for space launches and re-entry activities in Canada. It would expand regulation powers over launch vehicles, re-entry vehicles, and the operation and zoning of launch sites. The bill would also let the Minister of Transport indemnify operators for third-party damages in specific public interest cases, or require operators to indemnify the government. Additionally, it would give the minister emergency powers to stop launches for safety or security reasons.

Official text (opens in a new tab)

32 statements

Dominique O'Rourke, Guelph

Liberal
“The police are investigating the claims made here. But this land is worth more now because of its location and what we can do with it. Land always costs more once its use changes. Canada does not have many places to launch satellites, and this is one of them.”
Official Hansard

Madam Speaker, those are extraordinary accusations and allegations in the House. I am certain, with the RCMP investigation, that we will investigate and get to the bottom of it, clearly. I want to come back to the whole conversation, though, about how the land is supposedly just a little slab, how it was worth a tiny amount and how we are now paying this much for it. Anyone who knows a thing about zoning knows that every housing development and every factory starts in a field, a slab. It is about the geography. It is about the potential. The minute the zoning changes, the minute the economic opportunity expands, so does the cost. There are not a million places we can launch satellites from in Canada. This is one of them.

Yves Perron, Berthier—Maskinongé

Bloc Québécois
“Costs can go up, but there is a huge difference between $13,000 and $20 million. I want to know if my colleague thinks the government should manage its money more carefully.”
Official Hansard

Madam Speaker, in her last answer, my colleague said that it was to be expected that costs would increase once operations got under way. Fair enough. However, there is still a world of difference between $13,000 and the $20-million figure my colleague mentioned earlier. To me, those numbers are worlds apart. Could the government not be a little more disciplined? I would be interested in hearing my colleague’s thoughts on that.

Dominique O'Rourke, Guelph

Liberal
“I do not have the exact numbers with me. Building sites like this costs a lot, but it pays off. Experts say the Nova Scotia spaceport could create at least 16,000 jobs and add 300 million dollars to our economy.”
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Official Hansard

Madam Speaker, I do not have the details in hand. I would say that, in many cases, these are investments in a site’s potential. Anyone involved in development understands this. Although it is costly, the Conference Board of Canada, now known as Signal49, believes that the Nova Scotia spaceport could create 16,000 jobs and contribute $300 million to the gross domestic product. That is just the minimum. The potential of this investment is enormous.

Dane Lloyd, Parkland

Conservative
“Maritime Launch Services was a penny stock before the government gave it hundreds of millions of tax dollars. The market showed this company was very risky. The government is bad at investing in private businesses. How can anyone be sure taxpayers will ever get their money back?”
Official Hansard

Madam Speaker, before the government announced this sweetheart deal with Maritime Launch Services, the stock for this company was trading at around four cents a share. Following this government announcement, it went up to 60¢, and today it is at about 46¢. What that tells me is that this was an extremely risky proposition the company was putting forward, and the market did not ascribe a lot of value to it. How can the government be so confident that it knows better than the free market how to allocate scarce financial resources, when a company that is essentially a penny stock is getting hundreds of millions of dollars in taxpayer funding? The current government does not have a good record of investing money in the private sector. How can the member be confident this penny stock is going to get a return for Canadian taxpayers?

Dominique O'Rourke, Guelph

Liberal
“Changing the rules and permissions for this land makes it much more valuable. That is why this site now has so much economic potential.”
Official Hansard

Madam Speaker, the question is a good one and worthy of scrutiny, but I will say again that anyone involved in land speculation can have land that is basically worthless for generations, but when the zoning and the permissions change on that property, the value goes up exponentially. This is basic. This is what is happening. Because of the economic potential of this location at this time, there is increased value in the economic potential and benefits.

Marilyn Gladu, Sarnia—Lambton—Bkejwanong

Liberal

Linked statement

“Canada only has two places where we can launch these kinds of satellites. The $200-million contract pays to build launch pads, not just rent the land. Can the member explain why it is so important for Canada to be able to launch its own satellites?”
Official Hansard

Madam Speaker, with respect to the $200-million contract that is being spoken about, I asked questions about this as well because I was concerned. I found out it is not just for the lease, but it is also for the construction of several launching pads at that site. The reality is that there are only two locations in Canada, one in Newfoundland and this one in Nova Scotia, that are able to launch these kinds of satellites. Can the member reinforce why it is so important for Canada to have sovereignty in this area?

Dominique O'Rourke, Guelph

Liberal
“Canada needs its own rules to launch satellites into space. Right now, we have to rely on other countries, which costs us jobs and control over our own data. We need to build our own space industry here.”
Official Hansard

Madam Speaker, there are only so many places in the world where we can launch satellites that provide us with really important data that we use every single day. When we have to compete or go to another country and get in line to launch our satellites, that is a problem. The member opposite was speaking earlier about jobs that are fleeing to those places where they can launch satellites, because a whole economic ecosystem develops around those spaces. This is important to provide a framework for our sovereignty, in terms of our launch capability and our sovereignty over data, and also our economic sovereignty of investing in ourselves to create our own, more robust space ecosystem.

Michael Barrett, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands—Rideau Lakes

Conservative
“It is very important for our security and economy that Canada can launch its own rockets. But the opposition must ask questions to make sure the government makes these deals fairly, openly, and without giving special favours.”
Official Hansard

Madam Speaker, there seems to be a bit of a trend when the official opposition does exactly what oppositions are supposed to do: ask questions that bring accountability to bear on the government with respect to things such as the sovereign launch capabilities for our country. I have not heard anyone in the opposition say it is not important for Canada to have sovereign launch capability. I think it is tremendously important. I think there are security imperatives. I think there are economic imperatives. However, would the member agree that it is also appropriate and important to ask questions to make sure it is done in the right way, so the public can have confidence in the deals that are being done and so that when we move forward, they understand that it was fair and transparent, that there was no preferential treatment given, and that this really was all about creating sovereign launch capabilities and the benefits that come with it?

Dominique O'Rourke, Guelph

Liberal
“I want us to move forward with this bill. It gives us a framework so we can talk, make changes, and agree on the rules for space launches. The opposition always slows things down by saying bills are not good enough. They rush things they like, but they stall on this. We need to be consistent.”
Official Hansard

Madam Speaker, I completely respect the opposition’s role in challenging decisions and in making legislation better. I am going to point out another trend, though. It’s the trend of saying that we know we need this, but let us really slow it down, as with Bill C-16. It is great legislation, but to them it does not go far enough, so they are going to vote against security for women. I see the irony when the Leader of the Opposition says to call him when there is pipe in the ground. Before there is even a path on a pipeline, they want to hurry up on the pipeline, yet now we need a lot more frameworks and a lot more conversation. What I am saying is that there is room for conversation. This is a framework. It will invite conversation, amendment and agreement. We already have agreement in Nova Scotia with the premier, indigenous communities and the municipality. There are a lot of trends here, but let us try to be consistent.

Kevin Lamoureux, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Liberal
“The provinces support this space bill and are spending money on it. Working together helps Canada control its own space industry and stay independent, like the satellite maker in Winnipeg. I want to hear the member's thoughts on this.”
Official Hansard

Madam Speaker, I appreciate the responses my colleague has been providing. One of the important aspects to recognize is that the province not only supports it but is also investing in it. That speaks volumes in terms of how federal collaboration is ensuring that we have space sovereignty. It does not matter the region of the country. In Winnipeg, we have Magellan, which manufactures satellites. This provides us with even more independence in building an industry that is so vitally important to Canada’s sovereignty. I would like the member to give her thoughts on both or either of those comments.

Dominique O'Rourke, Guelph

Liberal
“We need to invest in our own space industry. Our location and talent can help our economy, protect our data, and attract other countries to launch here.”
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Official Hansard

Madam Speaker, the question of our sovereignty, namely economic sovereignty, geographic sovereignty and data sovereignty, has never been more pressing. We have an opportunity here to harness our own talent and our own geography. Part of the conversation here is about this location, its relationship to the Arctic and its orbital advantages, things that much smarter people than me know a lot more about. These three priorities are incredibly important at this moment in time. We have an opportunity to serve our own space industry and to invite other countries to launch here, because we are a trusted partner, we are stable and we have the geography. It is the time to invest in ourselves.

Dean Allison, Niagara West

Conservative
“Canada should build up its space industry, but I do not trust this government to be open and honest about how it spends money. I worry this bill gives unchecked power that could let Liberal insiders profit. As the opposition, we will keep questioning this bill to hold the government accountable.”
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Official Hansard

Madam Speaker, before I make my comments, as some of the other speakers have done, I want to offer my condolences to and prayers for the people at CFB Wainwright. What happened on the base last weekend is so tragic. While many suffered, I do not think people always appreciate, as in this House, the families behind the injured individuals and those who lost their lives. I also want to say a prayer for the families that have to deal with the uncertainty of those who are still sick and of whether and how those people are going to recover. The same thing happens here. We are here all week. We are doing our thing and we are off to events, but there are always family members back home who are the ones holding down the fort for us. I think it is appropriate that every chance we get to stand up in the House, we thank our spouses and families for the ultimate sacrifice they make. As we talk about this bill, and I know it has been mentioned in a couple of comments, it is not that we are saying we should not be dealing with space and an opportunity for people to create a great industry. Our problem comes from the fact that the government does not have a great track record on transparency. Part of the challenge we have right now is what we find when we start looking at what is going on and things that have come before. The government will announce a bill, and parts of the bill will be excellent and we will be supportive of it, and then what ends up happening is that this small piece called “transparency” seems to be an issue. I could rhyme off 100 instances of things right now. We could talk about the green slush fund that happened last year, or others from recent times. They were programs that seemed to make sense. Of course, we are transitioning and trying to figure out some of these things, so maybe we should be spending money on them. However, the problem that happens as we are dealing with them is that there is a huge disconnect when it comes to accountability, how we are we going to follow up and how we are going to make sure that these things are follow through on. Our challenge is not that we should not be looking at doing more in space. I think all my colleagues around the House would agree that that seems reasonable. Our challenge is always that what we see happening more and more with the Liberal government is that Liberal ministers and those who have the ability to write cheques are the ones making sure that insiders profit, with little transparency. That is our challenge as we look at these things and as the Liberals announce program after program. We can go back to the WE sponsorship scandal. There are so many things that have happened over the years that I think most Canadians should be concerned about when we start talking about legislation. Maritime Launch Services in Nova Scotia has been mentioned by my colleagues before. The question is, with all the Crown land available and everything that is made possible, how did it happen to be that particular piece? Why was that piece picked and not anything else? That is what we are talking about here. As we look at the process of what happens in this House, the challenge is not that the idea is a good idea or a bad idea. The challenge is how we are going to be accountable and transparent. The government has not been very transparent in recent years. As we look at these things, we are looking at how we deal with them. We see more and more power. We see more and more Liberal insiders seemingly doing better as a result of that while Canadians are struggling. We see that food bank use is at an all-time high in this country. We see that and think to ourselves, “How do we have money for all these things?” I am not talking about this one thing in particular, but we are writing all kinds of cheques all around the world. We spend money on foreign aid. Not all foreign aid is bad; we are not saying that is the case, but the challenge is that we have struggles here at home that we need to deal with. We have struggles here at home that need our attention. When we look at bills like this one, our challenge is not that we should not be looking at space travel in Canada. It is about who should be dealing with it. How should it be brought forward? Parliamentarians should also have opportunities to look at these things. Canada has a proud history of exploring space; there is no question about that. We have launched satellites, like the Alouette I, which was launched under the Diefenbaker Conservative government, making Canada the third country to design and build satellites. As mentioned in the House already, we have had astronauts like Chris Hadfield, Roberta Bondar and Jeremy Hansen. We have also had technology like the Canadarm. We have definitely had a proud history in this country of being able to deal with and work in space. When we look at these things, we have to keep going back to how we are going to make the government accountable. How are Canadians going to make sure that we have an opportunity to see what has gone on and see what has happened? We realize there is a real market for space launches; there is no question about that, but when decisions are made behind closed doors, that is the challenge we have. We can look at other programs. We can look at some of the things that have gone on so far in terms of censorship. There have probably been at least a dozen bills since COVID through which the government has tried to introduce some form of censorship in what it is doing, whether it is looking at metadata or setting up different types of things to keep an eye out and do more around that. We will look at the challenges as we continue to question legislation. That is our job as opposition: to question legislation. We should not be challenged, we should not be chastised and we should not be given a hard time for wanting accountability. As we move forward on this, one thing we need to constantly remind people of is that we are definitely in favour of enhancing our sovereignty and space capabilities, but we are certainly not supportive, and never will be supportive, of laws that could potentially give Liberal insiders and foreign agents blank cheques. I would just like to remind people that we were all sent here for a reason, and that is to do the best job we can when it comes to legislation in this House. As the opposition, we are required to ask questions. We are required to scrutinize bills. We should never have to worry about being challenged because we are asking too many questions or are not asking the right questions. I said at the start of my speech that the Liberal government does not have a great track record when it comes to transparency, so we are going to continue asking questions on this side of the House. We are going to keep challenging legislation. As I said, it is our duty as opposition to make sure that we are able to do that. In closing, once again, as we look at other legislation that is going to come forward over time, we are not going to slow down. We are not going to stop challenging. We are not going to stop asking questions. We are going to continue to do our job, which is our due diligence. We were sent here by Canadians to ask questions and to challenge the status quo. As long as we are here in opposition, we will continue to do just that. I want to thank you, Madam Speaker, for giving me time here. I see my time is almost up, so I will just finish with that. I appreciate the opportunity to speak once again in the House.

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