“The government is forcing a vote to give itself too many seats on committees. It promised to work with other parties, but it is shutting down debate instead of talking to us. The math it is using gives the Liberals more power than their small majority deserves.”

“Mr. Speaker, we may be asking for quiet, but we are not asking for members to be muzzled and, unfortunately, that is exactly what I will be talking about today. When members take the floor, we tend to say that we are pleased to rise, but that is always a little less true when the government has just announced a gag order or closure motion on a bill or motion. Unfortunately, that is what is happening again today. It seems as though this will not be the last time, and that is the problem. We are here today to talk about the composition of committees. That may seem rather innocuous and it may not be of interest to those watching at home. As my predecessor would say, no one is going to come to blows on buses about how many members from which party will serve on committee, but this is a sign of a deeper problem, which we are going to talk about today. I will come back to that. Most importantly, this is being done rather quickly. In just seven days, we went from the government promising to work with the parties after it secured a majority in the April 13 by-elections to a unilateral approach in which the government is refusing to engage in discussions, despite the customs and practices of the House. This has not been discussed or raised in the House, and now the government wants to impose a gag order just to make sure that the House has been sufficiently steamrollered. So the first thing the government is doing with its majority is shutting down debate in the House on something that is at the very heart of parliamentary democracy, namely committee work. The government made a nice promise to collaborate, so we might as well remind the government of that promise. The day after the by-elections, the Prime Minister said that the government would listen to all voices in Parliament and promised to work collaboratively. He said, “The work ahead demands collaboration, partnership, and ambition to deliver at the speed and scale Canadians are counting on.” As I was saying, unfortunately, the government is breaking with a parliamentary tradition that has always existed when it comes to the composition of committees. We are in a unique situation, and we acknowledge that. This is the first time that a government has gone from a minority to a majority midway through a Parliament. The usual procedure for the composition of committees is already set out in the Standing Orders. The parties determine by consensus how the committees could reflect the situation in Parliament. If there is a majority in the House, it makes sense for committees to have a majority as well. If there is no majority in the House, it makes sense that committees should not have a majority either and should reflect roughly the same percentage of representation as in the House. In addition, this is usually done collaboratively. In fact, chapter 20 of the new manual we received says, “Party representation on committees reflects the standings of recognized parties in the House, and each recognized party determines which of its members will represent it on a committee.” It also says that, by convention, the parties meet, discuss, negotiate and agree on the wording of a motion adopted subsequently through a report of the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs. Most of the time, this report is adopted by unanimous consent. That just goes to show how committees have always been set up in a spirit of collaboration and consensus. However, we are now in a situation where, just a week after promising to collaborate, the government is imposing its approach on us. The government is telling us that committees must reflect party standings in the House and that we must therefore ensure that we have roughly the same percentage. We agree with the principle that committees should reflect party standings in the House, but we do not agree with the way the government acquired its majority, particularly by way of floor crossers. Having said that, it would serve no purpose for us to deny the current reality that the House now has a majority. From there, what should a parliamentary committee that is proportional to the House look like? The government is proposing to add not just one but two Liberal members to every committee. We are going from committees that are mainly made up of 10 people, with five Liberals, four Conservatives and one Bloc member, to committees made up of 12 people, with seven Liberals, four Conservatives and one Bloc member. That would give the Liberals what we call a supermajority in committee. This morning, I heard the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons saying that there is no such thing as a supermajority in the House and that supermajority is an American term. However, the fact is that what the government is proposing does not reflect the composition of the House. I want to do a little math, and I hope that members will be able to follow what I am saying. After the general election, at the very beginning of this Parliament, the Liberals held 169 of the 338 seats in the House, or about 50%. At that time, they also held five out of the 10 seats in committee, or about 50%, which was relatively proportional. The Conservatives held 144 of the 338 seats in the House, or about 42% or 43%. They held four out of the 10 seats in committee, or about 40%, which is quite close. The Bloc Québécois held 22 seats in the House, or about 6.5%. That meant that we should have had 0.6 members in committee, but since that is obviously impossible, our representation was rounded up to 10% or one committee member. However, all of this was still relatively proportional. What the Liberals are proposing here is that committees have 12 members. Let us do the math again. Let us say we want each party to have the same percentage of seats it currently holds and committees are made up of 12 members. Let us start with today’s standings. There are currently 174 Liberal members, out of a total of 343, which is about 52% of the seats in the House. The Conservatives have 140 seats, so they represent about 40%. The Bloc Québécois has not changed much, and our percentage is 6.5%. Let us look at it from the opposite angle. Let us say that the committees will now have 12 members and that we want to maintain the same percentage of representation. Let us do the math. The Liberals have 174 members, and let us multiply that by 12 and divide it by 343. That comes out to 6.12 members. If we round that off, we end up with six Liberals per committee. Let us do the same calculation with the Conservatives. The Conservatives have 140 seats, so let us multiply that by 12 and divide it by 343. That comes out to 4.79 members. Let us round that number up. That means five Conservative members on each committee. Let us do the same with the Bloc Québécois. If we multiply 22 by 12 and divide it by 343, that comes out to 0.78 members. Once again, let us round that up. Here is what it would look like in a scenario with 12-member committees: six Liberals, five Conservatives and one Bloc Québécois member. The problem is that this does not give them a majority on the committee. Based on the Liberals’ proposal, if they really wanted a committee of 12 members, that is the composition they should have had. In that case, why not have a committee made up of 11 members? If there were six Liberals, four Conservatives and one Bloc member, we would be much closer to the parties’ standings in the House. Using the same principle that the Liberals are defending tooth and nail to justify making changes to the Standing Orders, we would be much closer to reality. However, the government is saying that this would mean that, once in a while, the chair of each committee would have to break a tie. The government cannot have it both ways. In a context where the government has a majority, albeit a slim one, the least it could do is not be so arrogant, which it was even back when it was a minority government. The least it could do is not resort to the extremes of arrogance by changing the makeup of committees and saying that it will continue to collaborate, as it promised to do. If the government wants to avoid having committee chairs cast a tie-breaking vote, then it should talk to the opposition parties, like the Bloc Québécois, to avoid situations where a committee chair would have to break a tie. If a committee chair ever has to do that, well, so be it—that is their job. They earn an extra $10,000 a year to run the committee, and voting in committee is part of their duties as an MP. Is it really the end of the world? In any case, we were unable to have this discussion, because the Liberals decided to go it alone, without consulting the opposition parties, without contacting them to seek their views or suggestions on the various options for forming committees, once again disregarding the established tradition regarding how committees are formed. The Liberals argued that they did not want to contact the opposition because the Conservatives had already made it clear in the media that they disagreed with the idea of overhauling committees. I think it is fairly common knowledge that discussions between the parties in the House do not take place in the media. It would therefore have been entirely justified to continue the discussion with various colleagues to see if we could reach an agreement that would have led to a better understanding. I have another point: When the government decides that a majority is necessary in committee, there are often two reasons. The first is to avoid obstruction and filibustering, a tool available to the opposition parties in cases where they feel disgruntled over x, y or z. Is that a valid argument in light of Parliament’s current situation? The answer is no. Dilatory motions, which are used to slow the work of certain committees, are currently being used in two committees: the Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities and the Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure and Communities. However, that is Liberal obstruction: The Liberals are the ones slowing the committees’ work because members of the opposition want to do their job, in other words, get information. In the case of the Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure, and Communities, the opposition has requested documents proving the profitability of the Contrecœur project. The government tells us it is a very good project. That is great, but let it show us the numbers. It must have them, if it can tell us that it is a good project. The opposition is asking for them, but what are the Liberals doing? They are blocking the committee’s work. The other place where we are seeing obstruction right now is the Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills Development, Social Development, and the Status of Persons with Disabilities. That is because the opposition is asking for figures on cost overruns related to, among other things, the Cúram software, the Phoenix software and the ArriveCAN app. The opposition wants to know what happened. It wants the government to be accountable, but the government is obstructing the process to avoid accountability. Again, these are the only two committees where obstruction is happening. The other argument we keep hearing for why a majority is absolutely necessary on committees is that committees are the place where bills end up when we have to debate them clause by clause, propose amendments and move the work forward once they have been through the House. According to the Liberals, since they have a majority in the House at second reading and can refer bills to committee, they should have a majority on committees so that bills do not get stalled in committee. However, that argument is also pretty odd, because we took the time to run the numbers. We went over every Parliament and looked at how many bills made it through. I have time; I can pull out a few numbers. In the 41st Parliament from 2011 to 2013, 58% of bills passed the committee stage and made it to third reading or the Senate, for example. From 2013 to 2015, that proportion rose to 74%, which is quite high. From 2015 to 2019, under a Liberal majority government, it was 50%. That is not a great success rate when it comes to passing bills, and yet the Liberals had a majority and therefore could not argue that bills were being stalled in committee. More recently, for our purposes, prior to the 2019‑20 prorogation, the rate was 63%, which is not so bad. After prorogation, in 2020‑21, the rate was 60%. During the last Parliament, the rate was 53%. Then, surprise, surprise, although many bills have been introduced recently and have not been debated in the House yet—and which we included in our analysis among those that have not gotten through yet—we still end up with a rate of 65% of bills that have gone through committee. In short, the argument that committees block legislation is particularly misleading. Since there are no issues with getting bills through committee and since there are no issues with filibustering and obstruction other than the government’s own, the argument that we need to have a Parliament that works rings completely false. It is all the more absurd as a reason for not contacting the opposition parties to discuss what could have be done about committees. Another concern I have about the composition of committees is that this requires a notice of motion from the government: Proposing a new committee composition takes a notice of motion from the government. As I have said before, the government’s majority is shaky. We should not be surprised—not now, since the honeymoon still seems to be going on, but in a few months’ time—if certain members of the Liberal caucus, such as the more progressive or greener members, start getting fed up, feeling that they no longer have a place in this government, and decide to leave. Some are physically closer to the door than others. They might be interested in taking one step more. The member for Laurier—Sainte-Marie and a few others might be slowly inching their way to the door, physically and perhaps mentally as well. If the government were to lose its majority along the way, what would happen to the composition of committees? That is an excellent question, which, incidentally, was put to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons. He told us that the opposition parties could use an opposition day to demand that the committees revert to their previous makeup. We then asked him if he would listen to the opinion of the House if such a request were made. The government is forcing the opposition parties to waste one of their opposition days doing the work it does not want to do itself, all in order to uphold the sacrosanct notion of proportional representation on House committees. It is putting pressure on the opposition parties and, what is more, it is paying lip service to the idea that it might consider the opposition parties’ views. However, the way it has treated our views so far—even just in terms of adopting this motion—speaks volumes about what we can expect from it going forward. I will conclude on this point. As I said in my opening remarks, no one is going to come to blows on buses about what we are discussing here. The composition of the House committees is something that is primarily our concern. I do, however, see this as a warning to the general public: What we are seeing now is the beginning of what could become a period of Liberal arrogance that will continue for years to come—perhaps as much as three years. It is not just the opposition parties that will bear the brunt of this. If I were a lobbying group, or if I were the government of one of the provinces or of Quebec, and I heard in the future that the government wanted to collaborate with me, honestly, I would have serious doubts. Without additional guarantees, I would not dare to hope for anything. I would never allow myself to hope that collaboration with the current Liberal government would materialize, unless Canada and Quebec were two separate countries and were speaking to each other as equals.”

“The government has a majority, so committee seats should reflect that. But the Liberals did not talk to other parties before changing how these seats are shared. Their math is unfair to other parties, and they broke tradition by deciding this alone.”

“Mr. Speaker, I get the impression that the parliamentary secretary spent my entire speech not actually listening to me. I said it once, I said it again, I have repeated it ad nauseam: We do not agree with how they scraped together their majority, but the fact remains that the government has a majority, and, as we have said repeatedly, the composition of the committees must reflect that. We disagree primarily because there was no consultation, contrary to the House’s century-old tradition regarding committee composition. Furthermore, we disagree with the formula the Liberals are using, since they are claiming a share that is ultimately not as proportional as it would have been if it had been “6-4-1”, for example. Other possibilities, other alternatives and other options could have been discussed with the opposition parties, which would likely have been eager to make their voices heard, including regarding the prospect of a reversal if the government were to lose its majority.”

“During the pandemic, parties worked together to change Parliament's rules. Now, the government is changing the rules quickly without consulting anyone. The Bloc Québécois made reasonable proposals, but the government missed a chance to work fairly.”

“Mr. Speaker, I am going to go back in time. Members will recall that a lot of new laws were created at one point in this Parliament, during COVID‑19. During COVID‑19, we had to make a lot of changes to how we did things, particularly to allow members to speak away from their seats, to allow online voting, to start implementing certain things. It faded a bit once there was a Liberal-NDP majority, but at the very beginning, there was a willingness to work together. That is what underpins democracy when it comes to creating new laws, as long as there is consensus, and that is how it was done. The fact that, in a context of new laws, the government has decided quickly and without any consultation to do things as it sees fit is an example of the arrogance we can expect in the future, even though it might not have been necessary to act that way at all. The Bloc Québécois has always proven that it is the adult in the room, that it can speak. Our proposals, the ones I made during my speech, were reasonable. That was a missed opportunity for the government to show that it can do something useful and work fairly.”

“The Liberals are breaking tradition again by changing the rules for committee makeup. With NDP help, they act like a majority government. I want our House leader to explain how these rule changes hurt people in Quebec and Canada.”

“Mr. Speaker, I am in awe of our leader’s oratorical skills. She always finds the right words and has a very clear way of explaining the issues to us. Once again, her speech was constructive, with proposals and arguments explaining why the government’s current proposal regarding the makeup of committees is unacceptable. This is not the first time the Liberal government has broken custom and tradition by significantly changing the rules. The Liberals did that with the Trudeau government. They took advantage of their alliance with the NDP to act like a majority and make significant changes to the Standing Orders. They are at it again today. Can our House leader explain to me what Quebeckers and Canadians have to lose because of the approach taken by the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, who is acting like the government’s “bad cop”?”

“It will be harder to hold the government accountable. The Liberals use their majority to block committee studies and hide documents. They also hide decisions inside agencies so no one can ask questions about them.”

“Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague from Beauharnois—Salaberry—Soulanges—Huntingdon for her excellent question. I really enjoy listening to her in the House as well. It is okay to praise one another from time to time. I get the feeling that, unfortunately, one of the things we will be doing the most in the coming weeks is praising one another because we will unfortunately have a much harder time holding the government to account. We can see it in the Liberals’ attitude. Yes, there are committees where the government is quick to try to refuse requests for studies from the opposition parties and requests for documents on the pretext that it can do whatever it wants since it now has a majority. Just because someone can do something does not mean that is the right thing to do. We will certainly see examples of that in the future. This shows the kind of approach that is on the horizon. It also makes clear that transparency is not really the Liberals’ cup of tea. More and more, we are seeing a host of agencies that keep decision-making out of the public eye. We know the government is pulling the strings behind the scenes, but as soon as accountability comes into play, we are not supposed to ask questions under the pretext that it is an independent agency. That is part of the current government’s attitude. Ultimately, it is the citizens who will lose out.”

• Little substance
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“I oppose the government changing the rules for committees. The government just wants to force bills through and stop studies, instead of letting us properly represent the people.”

“Mr. Speaker, this gives me an opportunity to talk a little more about how I see things. The government seems to want to change the composition of committees not in response to a past problem but rather because it wants to anticipate future problems it might encounter. It wants to give itself all the flexibility it needs to ram bills and motions through and to prevent studies from being carried out. That will not necessarily be in the best interests of the people, who would otherwise be duly represented by their representatives in the House. The government wants to give itself free rein to do whatever it wants. It will be, as they say in a language we occasionally hear in Parliament, “my way or the highway”.”

“The Prime Minister promised openness and teamwork, but the government is doing the opposite. They will use these rule changes to block committees from looking into scandals. I want my colleague to talk about this lack of openness.”

“Mr. Speaker, I would like my colleague to talk to us about a few things in a little more detail. The Prime Minister sweet-talked us about collaboration, openness, and partnership. He put up a nice facade, wore a nice suit, gave a nice performance. However, behind the scenes, on the floor of the House of Commons, the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons is doing the exact opposite of what the Prime Minister publicly announced to the media, in front of reporters. Can my colleague tell me what will happen if a scandal is uncovered and we want to learn more? The matter will be impossible to discuss in any committee because the Liberals will reject the motion. They will block transparency. Can my colleague elaborate on the current issue of transparency and accountability?”

• Personal attack
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  This statement targeted a person rather than their actions or views: “He put up a nice facade, wore a nice suit, gave a nice performance.”.

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“The Liberal government is trying to avoid answering questions and being held accountable. The Prime Minister skips question period as much as he can. My party will use committee rules and the media to show the public what the government is trying to hide.”

“Mr. Speaker, this seems to be a case of “shut up” or “keep talking”. That is how the government works. The Liberals will do anything they can to avoid accountability when questions are being asked. It is a different way of doing things, but it is clear that the Liberals want as little transparency and accountability as possible, so that they can do things however they like. Even the Prime Minister’s attitude makes this obvious. He avoids being in the House during question period as much as possible. I think the opposition is going to have to get creative. Generally speaking, Bloc members tend to have creativity in spades. We will make use of the tools still available to opposition MPs. In particular, we can invoke Standing Order 106(4) in committee. We will use the media as much as possible to rub salt into any wounds there might be. I have a feeling that, as people see us doing this, they will realize what the government is trying to hide. Three and a half years can be a very long time. At the end of those three and a half years, we will see where public opinion stands on the Liberal government.”

“I agree that we should vote against this motion. I am upset that the government is shutting down debate to force through changes to our committees. I want to know what my colleague thinks this means for the next three years.”

“Mr. Speaker, I congratulate my colleague from Montmorency—Charlevoix on his speech. He concluded his speech by saying that we need to vote against Motion No. 9. We can debate the substance of the motion, and I would tend to agree with him on that. That being said, what truly bothers me, what irks me and what is so contrary to my values is the way the Liberals are preparing to pass Motion No. 9, in other words, by imposing closure. That does not work. That takes the debate out of the equation. What I find particularly rich and particularly difficult to accept is the fact that the first thing this Liberal government does as a majority government is to use a closure motion to shove down our throats an overhaul of committees that is not even representative of Parliament. I would like to hear my colleague’s comments on that. If that is the Liberals’ first move as a majority government, what does he think the next three years have in store for us?”

“I want to ask the member if she thinks the government is on the wrong track. I worry the government is using its early popularity to take too much control. This sets a bad example and hurts trust.”

“Mr. Speaker, I must congratulate the member from British Columbia on her insightful and interesting speech. It is clear at times like these that all political parties have different perspectives to offer on the issues we are debating. I found the Green Party’s perspective relevant and interesting. Under the circumstances, I was wondering about something. In her speeches in the House, the member often acts as the voice of Parliament’s conscience. I think that is how she tries to do her job, at least sometimes. Does that famous conscience tell her that the government is on the right track or the wrong track right now? Personally, I get the impression that the government is taking advantage of its honeymoon period to take increasingly authoritarian action, and that is dangerous because it sets precedents. Obviously, we have not reached the point where democracy is at risk, but still, I find these actions troubling. They are leading us down a slippery slope. They are not constructive and they do not build trust.”

“The government is using questionable tricks to force a majority and shut down debate. They are also changing how committees work. I want to ask the member for Saanich—Gulf Islands, who has been here for a long time, what advice she has for our newest members.”

“Mr. Speaker, I also want to congratulate the Green Party member, who represents a riding in British Columbia. I commend her on her intervention and for having the determination and endurance to rise in the House even though she is her party’s only representative. That is entirely to her credit. While I do not want to play up her seniority too much, my colleague from Saanich—Gulf Islands has been here since 2011, if I am not mistaken, and she has seen a lot of water flow under the bridge. Some members are new here, arriving just after the by-election a few weeks ago. As my colleague from Louis-Saint-Laurent—Akiawenhrahk said, tomorrow will mark one year since a number of new members arrived in the House. However, they are seeing the government engineer a majority in a highly questionable way and impose a gag order on the first day of this majority to alter the composition of committees in an equally questionable way. I would like to know whether this is the government’s idea of democracy and parliamentarism. I would also like to know whether my colleague from Saanich—Gulf Islands has any advice for the new members who have just taken their seats in the House.”

“The government says changing committee seats is not a political game and calls for cooperation. I am asking my colleague if he thinks the Liberals are actually playing political games.”

“Mr. Speaker, I commend my colleague from Elgin—St. Thomas—London South on his speech. In the speech that he gave here in the House, the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons said, “We are proposing to adjust committee membership proportionally to reflect the party standings in the House. It is as simple as that. There are no games, no untoward tactics and no strategies here.” He also said, “My fear is that some members across the aisle are more interested in scoring political points and creating divisions for their own partisan gain, at a time when we really need to co-operate and collaborate in good faith to deliver on issues of critical importance for our country.” He then went on to say, “Collaboration is the approach to politics that Canadians...want in this place for all elected representatives. They do not want partisan gamesmanship.” Does my colleague think that is what the Liberals are doing?”

“The Liberals are blocking work in several committees by talking endlessly. They have too many members on these committees, which gives them too much power to stop our work. I want to know if the Conservatives agree.”

“Mr. Speaker, I really appreciated the speech by the chief opposition whip. Having served as a whip myself, I know that it is a very demanding role that also requires a thorough understanding of parliamentary procedures. I have a question for my colleague. As we speak, there are two or three committees that are at a standstill, including the Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure and Communities, the Standing Committee on Public Accounts and the Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates. The Liberals are filibustering and refuse to discuss issues that require transparency and testimony so that we can examine matters that are somewhat sensitive but necessary. Right now, it is the Liberals who are filibustering in the committees. We are not opposed to committees having a majority, but we believe that seven Liberal members is excessive. It is an abuse of power. We wonder if the official opposition whip feels the same way we do.”

“The government is using this motion to cut off debate on how Parliament runs. The Liberals want nearly 60 percent of the seats on committees. That is unfair because they only have about half the seats in the House.”

“Mr. Speaker, the motion before us is a gag order designed to limit speaking time on a fundamental issue, namely defining how Parliament and its committees operate. Normally, this is done in consultation with all the parties, out of basic respect for the principle of representation in the House. Representation is already questionable because the government does not have a true majority. Its majority has been cobbled together with floor crossers, but it gets even worse. If we used the Liberals’ current majority, that is, if we were to recognize it, they would end up with roughly 50% of seats. That should come out to just slightly more than half the members on committees. Normally, the Liberals should have one more seat than the Conservatives and the Bloc Québécois combined. Unfortunately, what is happening instead is that the Liberals want to give themselves nearly 60% of the votes on committees. Sixty per cent of the seats on the committees is equivalent to having nearly 200 members in the House, 199 to be exact, while the Liberals actually have 174. How can they explain this overrepresentation of a government whose majority is false to begin with?”

“Liberals are wasting time in committees so opposition members cannot do their work. They are stopping us from getting documents and calling witnesses. I want to know if they are doing this to buy time until they can take control of the committees and avoid answering for their actions.”

“Mr. Speaker, the Liberals are filibustering on a number of committees right now to prevent opposition members who have the majority from holding the government to account, from obtaining information, from calling witnesses and from receiving documents, essentially, to prevent them from doing their job, which is to determine what is going on and to ensure accountability for the government’s administration and decisions. The committee I sit on is facing this situation. When I see that several weeks have passed since the Liberals decided to block committees where the discussion and debates are not to their liking, and when a motion to take control of the committees appears at the same time, a question comes to mind. Are the Liberals filibustering in committee to buy time? Was their plan to play this game until they secured a majority to avoid parliamentary accountability?”

“MPs have changed parties to gain power. I want my colleague to tell us what the government promised an MP to get them to switch sides.”

“Mr. Speaker, as my colleague has rightly pointed out, there has been a shift in the balance of power in Parliament, which is simply the result of a wave of defections. People have been lured by the prospect of power. We do not know what was promised to them, but I know there have been specific discussions regarding one MP who left the Conservatives to join the Liberals. Does my colleague have any details to share with us regarding the procedures or methods used by the Minister of Housing and Infrastructure, in particular, to make phone calls and promise people gifts in exchange for switching sides?”

“The Liberals keep changing the House rules without agreeing with other parties first. They did it before with hybrid Parliament, and they are trying to bypass the rules again now. I want to hear my colleague's thoughts on what this says about the government.”

“Mr. Speaker, my colleague from Dufferin—Caledon has been in the House since 2011. He has seen a few other stories involving the Liberals in general, but it does not matter which party is in power. It is very difficult to focus when the chief government whip will not stop talking. If it would be possible to rein him in from time to time, I would appreciate it. I was saying that my colleague from Dufferin—Caledon has seen many things. I have been here since 2019, and the Liberals have been in a majority government position twice now. The first time was with the support of the NDP, as members will recall. At the time, they used the opportunity to permanently change the Standing Orders of the House by allowing the use of hybrid Parliament, something that would normally have been the subject of discussions among the parties and some consensus at the end of those discussions. However, they decided to ram it through and force it down our throats. The Liberals now find themselves with a majority, which was obtained through questionable means, and the first thing they do is once again try to get around parliamentary rules and traditions. What does that say about the Liberals in general, and this government in particular? I would like to hear my colleague’s thoughts on that.”

“The Liberals do not have the math to add an extra member to each committee. They are ignoring parliamentary rules and traditions just because they are frustrated with Conservative delays. I want the government whip to explain why the Liberals think they can break our traditions to take control of these committees.”

“Mr. Speaker, with regard to the whip’s somewhat ridiculous argument, I would say that the Liberals should have about 6.2 people on each committee, and usually when rounding, we round to the nearest whole number. That is six, not seven. We do not round up when the number we are rounding is 6.2. It does not work like that. He finally let the cat out of the bag earlier in his speech. We heard him express his frustration at how the Conservatives have been acting in recent years. I understand that they have been filibustering a lot and that that has not always been easy for the Liberals, but that is no reason to flout parliamentary decency. That is exactly what the Liberals are doing. They are flouting parliamentary decency and failing to respect the rules and traditions of Parliament. I would like my colleague opposite, the government whip, to explain why the Liberals suddenly feel as though they have the right to flout the rules and traditions of Parliament and use their majority to take control of committees, including the ones where the government has to be accountable to the people.”

“The Liberals want to silence Parliament. I want to know if enough members are here to debate this.”

“Mr. Speaker, the Liberals have moved a motion that will muzzle Parliament. I wonder whether there are enough of us to have this discussion or whether we are doing all this for nothing.”

“Government members need to show up if they want to have a debate. Also, the government's math for committee seats does not add up. If seats matched the House fairly, Liberals would get six seats, not more. I want the member to explain their math.”

“Mr. Speaker, my colleague from Kings—Hants can thank me. Because of me, he had a slightly larger audience during his speech. Half of them left afterward, but that was down to him. He will have to manage that with is colleagues. The other comment we heard while you were counting members was that I was interrupting the debate. If there is no one to debate, there is no debate; it is called a monologue. Government members have to be present for a debate to happen. The Leader of the Government in the House of Commons said, “We are proposing to adjust committee membership proportionally to reflect the party standings in the House.” If we did that proportionally, the Liberals would be entitled to 6.2% or 6.3% representation in committee. As anyone who has done first-year high school math knows, that would be rounded to the nearest whole number. In this case, Liberal representation in committee would therefore amount to six members. How does my colleague explain the creative math that his leader and his government used to calculate party representation in committee?”