Safe Social Media Act

Bill C-34, Safe Social Media Act · Second reading · now at committee in the House Where it stands

What Bill C-34 would do

The bill would create the Digital Safety Act and set up the Digital Safety Commission of Canada to oversee it. Operators of regulated social media and chatbot services would have to mitigate exposure to harmful content, label synthetic content, and protect children through design features and age limits. Platforms would also have to remove non-consensual intimate content and child sexual abuse material, and submit digital safety plans to the commission.

Official text (opens in a new tab)

81 statements

Peter Schiefke, Vaudreuil

Liberal
“I want my colleague to explain why we should pass this bill. How will it protect Canadians, especially young people?”
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, I thank my hon. colleague for his speech and the extraordinary work he does to serve his constituents. I would ask my colleague to tell the House and the parents and young people in his riding why it is important for us to adopt Bill C-34. What will this do to better protect Canadians, especially young Canadians?

Abdelhaq Sari, Bourassa

Liberal
“I want this bill passed to protect children online. When a toy is dangerous, stores take it off the shelves. Parents cannot watch what their kids do online all day, but social media companies have the tools to do it and should be required to.”
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague, who represents the riding neighbouring mine, for that great question. It is very simple. As I mentioned, I have a 14-year-old son. We know full well that when a toy is dangerous, it is taken off the market and off of store shelves. My son spends most of his time in front of a screen. I think we need to address this issue much more seriously. I cannot ask parents in Bourassa and across Canada to monitor their children’s online activities 24 hours a day, seven days a week. That is virtually impossible. However, the platforms have the means to do so, they have the algorithms to do so, and they must do just that.

Helena Konanz, Similkameen—South Okanagan—West Kootenay

Conservative

Linked statement

“Children need real protection online, but I question whether this bill is the right way to do it. This method is not working in Australia.”
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, children need real protection online. Is Bill C‑34 the best solution? This method is not working in Australia.

Abdelhaq Sari, Bourassa

Liberal
“I want everyone to vote for this bill. It is a step forward and a world first. It covers social media, artificial intelligence, and safety design in ways that Australia did not.”
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Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank my colleague for asking her question in such elegant French. I appreciate it. The unique thing about this bill is that it is a world first. It is a step forward, and I hope that everyone here will vote to support it. There are three aspects. Australia did not regulate all of the aspects I listed in my speech, including the issue of social media, AI and platforms, as well as safety by design.

Frank Caputo, Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola

Conservative
“I want the government to give longer prison sentences to people who target children online, instead of focusing on an internet regulator. The harms this bill talks about are already illegal under criminal law. Anyone who lures or sexually assaults a child should face life in prison.”
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, it is always a pleasure to rise on behalf of the people of Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola. It is always an honour to speak in the House of Commons, but on this occasion, it is a particular honour. Before I begin, I want to recognize and honour the life of Attilio Sirianni, who passed away last month in Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola. He leaves behind his children Ferro, Teresa, Mario, Gino, Maria and Raffelina. I extend my deepest condolences to Attilio’s family. May perpetual light shine upon him. Before I get into my speech, I want to recognize the life of Angelo Carusi, who recently passed away in Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola. Those who are left to mourn him include his father Tino, who I have gotten to know through the Colombo Lodge, our local Italian cultural centre; his son Angelo; and his siblings Augie, Ed and Rina. May perpetual light shine upon him. I extend my deepest condolences to the Carusi family. When I was young and growing up, I basically spent my time watching baseball. I was a huge Blue Jays fan. Because I was on the west coast, the Blue Jays games would start at 4:30 p.m. every day. I would come home from school and that is essentially what I did. I had a 286 computer that I would use for word processing. My dot matrix printer was always there and always ready to help me out. I used that all the way until I was in my third year of university. In 1999, I think I got a Windows-based computer. That tells members how old I am. At the end of the day, the computer was a tool for work. I had terrible handwriting, so I would often type out my things. My mom was a legal assistant and could type about 60 or 70 words a minute, so I would sometimes conscript her into typing out my work assignments, for which I thank her. Things were simply different. For instance, I have a background as someone who has worked extensively to combat Internet luring, but the luring of children, back when I was a child, was all done face-to-face. When people wanted to meet one another, they took out classified ads. The young people would read these ads and make fun of them. That was essentially how people met. Let us face it, kids were not generally responding to these ads. Luring takes place when somebody deliberately targets a child and, through that, attempts to lure the child into a relationship. It is almost never initiated by the child. That is why it is called luring. This is an area that I devoted a fair amount of my time to. It is no wonder, when we think about how much time kids spend online. The Internet has changed a lot of things, but in some ways I think it has made the predatory world even more predatory. The anonymity of the Internet is something else. I remember attending a workshop about luring and the difficulties for children. We were told about all these social media vehicles where people did not even have to enter their name or email address and they could instantly go into a chat room and start talking to people, or do something that essentially was a crime immediately without any oversight. For far too long, it has been my view that service providers and social media providers have looked the other way. When people look at the stats, they see that a number of crimes have skyrocketed. That is one of the reasons why I put forward my bill, Bill C-291, in the last Parliament, which received royal assent. I did that with the former member of what is now Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies. The reason we put that bill forward to change the name of child pornography to child sexual abuse and exploitation material was to reflect the gravity of the offence. If somebody were to look at a chart, what they would see for 2013 is this massive skyrocketing, probably by about 10 to 15 times, of the reporting of offences. That is not just because more predators were born in, say, 1993 or something, and the offences are now coming to fruition. The difference was a difference in reporting. For far too long, we saw organizations and providers essentially turning a blind eye, as in they knew that luring was happening and the Internet was an unsafe place, yet nothing was done. In 2012, and I am proud to say this as a Conservative, the Conservative government imposed a positive obligation on service providers to report. People might ask what a positive obligation is. Most laws are negative obligations in criminal law or in traffic law. “Do not speed” is a negative obligation. Someone has to not do something. “Do not assault” is another example. A positive obligation requires a person to do something. For instance, paying taxes is a positive obligation. This law imposed a positive obligation for service providers to report, and the numbers absolutely skyrocketed. It was not just that this was happening more; it was being detected more. I recently went to the RCMP to meet with RCMP commissioner Duheme and deputy commissioner Larkin, as well as many others, many of whom are in the business of protecting children. I went with the member for Oxford. It was a great meeting. These are the unsung heroes, in my view, of our law enforcement community. The reason is that they deal with child sexual abuse and exploitation material, day in and day out. They do not get a reprieve. They are the ones who have to deal with it, so I want to give a shout-out to those people because they are not paid more to do this, yet they put their lives and mental health on the line so that others do not have to, as they protect our children. This is all to say that this is a crucial area of law. The Internet, let us face it, is not a safe place. Where I would like to see things go and where I would actually challenge the government to go on this point is with respect to sentencing. We are talking about an Internet regulator, but so much of what concerns us in our discourse here in Bill C-34, what we are aiming to do, the pernicious and insidious harms, if we will, of kids being on the Internet, is actually already regulated by criminal law. I think we should be looking at the sentencing. I will give an example. Internet luring began with a sentence of five years in jail, maximum. A maximum sentence is a sentence that can be imposed, but not must be imposed. It started at five years, and then it went to 10 years. As Conservatives, I am proud that we upped it to 14 years. Bill C-299 is a private member’s bill I tabled last Parliament. I believe sentencing should go to life in prison. I believe someone who offends against children for that offence, or for sexual interference, which is essentially the sexual assault of a child, because children cannot consent, should be liable to life. If someone touches a kid, they should see the inside of a jail cell. I have said it before and I will say it again: If I am ever in charge of making laws on the government side, I will not stop until sex offenders see the inside of a jail cell for a darn long time. I know I am already running short on time just talking about this. It is an area of great passion for me. I really do think that we have to value the mental health of children. We really do. This is not something that I think only the Conservatives value or only the Liberals value. Let us be real. Everybody in here values the mental health of children. How we go about it is what we need to debate substantially. I would invite the government to consider thinking about the sentencing aspect. Before I end, I want to reflect on the life of Iolanda Bartella, somebody from Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola who recently passed away. Iolanda leaves behind her sons Frank, Carmelo and Rob. I actually taught her granddaughter Kiely at law school in a class on sentencing, probably eight or nine years ago. Kiely is now a lawyer. I send my deepest condolences to the Bartella family. May perpetual light shine upon her.

Sima Acan, Oakville West

Liberal
“I want the opposition to help pass this bill quickly. It holds big social media companies accountable to keep children safe online.”
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank my colleague for speaking to Bill C-34. I always say crime is a non-partisan issue. My colleague and I sit together on the public safety committee and work together on so many bills that we passed last year. In June, we worked on Bill C-22 in committee, which is on lawful access, and complementary legislation to Bill C-34. It would provide law enforcement agencies with additional tools to help solve these criminal issues and keep our children safe online. With Bill C-34, our goal is to hold large social media companies accountable. Unfortunately, Bill C-22 was delayed by opposition members. My question is as follows: Will my colleague and members of the opposition party commit to supporting Bill C-34’s timely passage and ensuring that big tech companies will be kept accountable to keep our children safe?

Frank Caputo, Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola

Conservative
“We should not rush this bill through Parliament. The opposition is taking time because the government did not make a good case for it, and it has flaws that need work. We need to look at this bill carefully to make sure it is done right.”
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Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for her question. I practise my French with the member once in a while, and I have enjoyed sitting with her on the public safety committee. There is a lot to go through here, and I am not going to be able to get through it all, but one of the things I want to say about Bill C-22, and I talked about Internet luring, is that my life in my former career revolved around lawful access. It really did. We heard that the opposition delayed it. I will say that I do not know that the government made the best case for the bill. I think there were a lot of areas we really needed to address, but at the end of the day, crime is not an issue. What I want to see is the best bill possible and, as parliamentarians, we should be endeavouring for the best bill possible. When people say we need speedy passage, no, we need proper passage and we need prudent passage. I will always scrutinize bills to get prudent bills.

Gabriel Ste-Marie, Joliette—Manawan

Bloc Québécois
“I want to know if the member looked at similar online safety laws in other countries, like in Europe and Australia. If he did, what can we learn from them as we study this bill?”
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, first off, I want to offer my condolences to the family and friends of the individual mentioned by my hon. colleague. I would like to know if he looked at comparable provisions enacted in other countries, like European nations and Australia. If so, are there any aspects that we should keep in mind during our study of Bill C‑34, based on what is being done elsewhere?

Frank Caputo, Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola

Conservative
“We should not rush this bill. We need to send it to a committee to study it and hear from experts in other countries, like Australia and New Zealand. I want to know if these laws actually work to remove young people's accounts, and whether computers can really tell teenagers' exact ages.”
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his question. I am not an expert on what other jurisdictions are doing. In one jurisdiction, as I was preparing for the speech, I came across something, I believe it may have been in Australia, that said that, once the law was enacted, not necessarily every account disappeared for a young person. I think that is something we have to contend with. The other thing we have to contend with, even with age verification, is that AI might be smart, it might be “intelligent”, but can it really differentiate between somebody that is 15, 16, 17 or 14? To me, those are the types of things we need to study a committee. We just heard about Bill C-22. I would invite the government not to rush through this. Let us hear from people from Australia, New Zealand and places like that, because it is important that we, as parliamentarians, hear everything on this bill.

Tamara Kronis, Nanaimo—Ladysmith

Conservative
“The Department of Justice admits this bill affects free speech, equality rights based on age, and privacy. But their report relies on future rules that do not exist yet. I want the member to explain how our committee will study this bill to reassure Canadians that their rights are protected.”
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, in the charter statement for this bill, the Department of Justice acknowledges that the bill engages freedom of expression under subsection 2(b) and equality rights under section 15, because it distinguishes on the basis of age, and, of course, privacy interests under section 8 because of the age verification. I find it striking that the charter statement relies on future commission guidelines, future regulations and a number of things that have not been determined yet. I am just wondering if the member could comment on the work that needs to be done in committee to reassure Canadians in this way.

Frank Caputo, Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola

Conservative
“The government's report on how this bill affects people's rights is flawed. We cannot know if the bill protects our rights when the actual rules have not been written yet.”
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Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, my hon. colleague has been a wonderful addition to our B.C. caucus and our federal caucus here in the 45th Parliament. I have read a number of charter statements, and I am not always impressed. I would say that sometimes they are deficient. When we start talking about how the charter applies to things that no longer exist, I think that jeopardizes what the rule of law says should be unparalleled transparency. If we do not know what might be there in regulation, how can we say how the charter is going to apply?

Marilyn Gladu, Sarnia—Lambton—Bkejwanong

Liberal
“I support this bill to protect people, especially children, from online harm. It makes things that are already illegal in real life illegal online, too. A new commission will make sure social media companies follow these rules, without letting the government look at your private data. We can work out smaller details, like how to check users' ages, at committee.”
  • A repeated line

    “Content that induces a child to harm themselves.”

    Said 6 times by 6 members since October 28.

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Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, it is always a pleasure to rise in the House. Today, I will be speaking about Bill C-34, but before I begin, I want to take a moment to honour the memory of Chief Warrant Officer Ron Nutt, from my riding, who served in the 1st Hussars for over 30 years and sadly passed away at age 67. Taken too soon, he was a quiet, gentle man, but a really intelligent, forceful human being. He will be sorely missed. When it comes to Bill C-34, I can tell members that I have been in Parliament for quite some time, and this is the third version we have seen of the bill. I am really happy. The first two were terrible, but this one is much better. My colleague, the member for Calgary Nose Hill, tabled a private member’s bill on this topic, because I think we all agree that we need to protect children from online harms. That private member’s bill, Bill C-216, informed a lot of the work of this one, which is definitely helpful. What the bill would do is make what is illegal today in the real world illegal in the digital world. That is a simplification, but it is essentially what is happening. We really need to protect our children and ourselves because the rise in online harm has been unbelievable. In 2023, half of students were experiencing online bullying. In 2024, police reported 19,516 instances of online child exploitation, an increase of 59% over the previous year and an increase of 500% since 2014. In terms of harms, we see that they are not just online. They are becoming physical and mental harms. I am still struck and saddened by what happened to Amanda Todd and Rehtaeh Parsons. We studied this the first year I was elected. These girls had, without their consent, intimate images of them put up on Facebook, and as a result, they both took their own lives. It is just terrible. This is where online harm can become physical harm. We also see the impact on our children. The pandemic was a time when many people spent more time online and could not go outside. Young people’s depression doubled. Their anxiety quadrupled. The suicide rate among young people doubled as well. Online harms are a real deal for our kids, and we all want to protect our kids. Each parliamentarian in the House has probably experienced online vitriol aimed at them. Certainly I have. It was awful when I started, but I have seen nothing like what I saw in the last year. These are harms. These things are illegal, and we have to address them. When it comes to online harm, people will ask what it really is. The things that are defined in the bill include content that sexually victimizes a child or revictimizes a survivor, intimate content communicated without consent, content that induces a child to harm themselves, content used to bully a child, content that foments extreme hatred, content that incites violence, and terrorism or violent extremism content. Essentially, those things would be covered. There have been concerns expressed about the freedom of expression and some of the charter rights. Everyone will know that I am a passionate defender of our Charter of Rights and Freedoms, and certainly the government is well aware that people are concerned about who is going to determine what can be said and what cannot be said. We have a good definition of hate speech, which has been recently improved, but we need to make sure that everything is clear and that we not have overreach happen. In terms of privacy, I have also heard the concerns there. Bill C-36 would address many of the concerns that I have heard raised in debate today. In addition to that, people have talked about the need for transparency. I want to be clear about the digital commission that would be put in place. Obviously, if we are going to try to do something about online harms, we need somebody whose job it is to respond when bad behaviour is pointed out and come up with a remedy. That is why we want to take the idea from Bill C-216 to put the onus on service providers to make sure they are enforcing the standards. However, this digital commission, which would have three to five experts in the area, would be responsible for enforcing the laws that are described, and every year it would report to the minister and produce a report that would be tabled here in Parliament. Then Parliament could have oversight to make sure that it is working, that there are no abuses and that we are comfortable with where it is headed. There have also been discussions about under-16 age verification. Different techniques can be used, and I look forward to the discussions at committee reviewing what other countries have done and reviewing what people think is a better method to ensure age verification. There is everything from uploading an ID, which some people think is a privacy violation, to using AI to guess how old someone is. That is getting very accurate, but I do not want it to guess how old I am, so I will stop there. The other thing we have to do is be realistic. We know that when Australia implemented this, 70% of kids under 16 found a way around the system, so this will probably happen. It is important to say what is bad behaviour, say it is illegal and put mechanisms in place to enforce the rule of law, but we will have to deal with how we as parents and legislators encourage kids not to expose themselves at a young age to what is really the wild west of the Internet, where content that they should not be seeing is showing up. We know it is harmful to them. I think about when I grew up. I did not even have a TV until I was eight. I never had a cellphone until I was 30. There would be some advantage to not having the social harms that kids have to deal with when their maturity and the confidence they have in themselves are not yet developed. Let us talk a bit about what the safety commission would do. It would review the safety plans that are prepared and published for the different social media AI chatbot services. It would evaluate whether the age verification mechanism that the services are using is adequate. It would maintain transparency from both social media and chatbot platforms in publishing their policies and thresholds for notifying the RCMP, police or other law enforcement. Let us keep in mind that what is illegal in the real world would be illegal digitally, but the people who would follow up on that would not be in the digital safety commission; they would be the police of jurisdiction in that area. The commission would also provide support for victims of online harms and users of online services, and it would have the ability to issue fines to platforms of up to 3% of their global revenue. I have a lot of respect for the member for Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola. He has encouraged the government to consider more serious sentencing, especially in cases of child luring and sexual exploitation. I think the government should take that into consideration. There are some potential myths we have heard about this bill because of some of the previous versions that were not great. Let me just quickly look to those. One is that the government would get access to our private data. That would be specifically excluded; that would not happen. I already talked about the freedom of speech and already talked about the other concerns. I have also heard from the Bloc the concern that this bill would violate provincial jurisdiction. I look forward to hearing those discussions at committee. They have implemented something with age 14, so the discussion of what age it should be is a very good discussion. With that, I would be happy to answer any questions.

Amarjeet Gill, Brampton West

Conservative
“This bill bans content that bullies children, but the law does not define what bullying is. We need the best possible law to protect children. I want the member to define bullying and give an example.”
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, right at the beginning, the member said that this is a better bill, and I think when it comes to children, we need the best. Under the seven categories of harmful content, Bill C-34 lists “content used to bully a child”. There is currently no legal definition of bullying. I would like to ask the member if she can define what bullying is and provide an example.

Marilyn Gladu, Sarnia—Lambton—Bkejwanong

Liberal
“I am not a lawyer, so the member for Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola should answer the question about the legal definition. Bullying can involve sexual images, and people can look at what is posted about me online to see what bullying looks like.”
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Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, I am not a lawyer, so I highly recommend having a discussion with the member for Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola because he will know the answer to that, but I believe there is a bullying definition used in the law. I would reiterate that some of the types of bullying we see use sexual images, for example, as in the Amanda Todd and Rehtaeh Parsons examples. I would point the member to the Twitter feed about me this past year if he wants to see what bullying looks like.

Gabriel Ste-Marie, Joliette—Manawan

Bloc Québécois
“I want to know if the member thinks this online safety bill is flexible enough as it is. It needs to respect provincial powers, especially for Quebec. I also want to know if her party is open to changing the bill in committee to make it better.”
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Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, I want congratulate my hon. colleague on her speech. It was very substantive. Of course, I am sorry that she had to endure so much harassment on social media. That is truly unacceptable. At the end of her speech, she touched on several of the concerns that have been raised during this debate, including respect for areas of provincial jurisdiction, respect for Quebec and the provinces and, for example, flexibility regarding age. In her view, does the bill, in its current form, provide sufficient flexibility? If, as she said, amendments were proposed during the committee study, would her party be open to improving the bill in this regard?

Marilyn Gladu, Sarnia—Lambton—Bkejwanong

Liberal
“I do not know enough about how this works in Quebec, but Quebec has more experience with this issue. I would welcome changes to the bill when it goes to committee.”
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, I am not sufficiently familiar with the situation in Quebec. I believe that Quebec has more experience with this issue, and I would be very pleased to see amendments tabled in committee.

Marianne Dandurand, Compton—Stanstead

Liberal
“I want the member to explain how this online safety bill is better than older versions, and what she likes most about it.”
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, I first want to commend my colleague from Sarnia—Lambton—Bkejwanong for her outstanding work. I was honestly quite touched to hear her talk about her experience. She has been very courageous in all of this. I am very pleased to have her on our team. As I said, she is doing a great job. That said, she mentioned at the beginning of her speech that there were other versions of this legislation that were not as good as this one. I would like her to tell us about the main ways in which this bill improves on them and what she likes most about this version of this very important bill.

Marilyn Gladu, Sarnia—Lambton—Bkejwanong

Liberal
“Earlier versions of this bill let people be sent to prison for up to 25 years just because someone thought they might commit a hate crime in the future. That went against the Charter of Rights. I am glad it was taken out.”
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, there was something unacceptable in the previous versions. The first two versions said that if somebody thought a person was going to commit a hate crime in the future, that person could be put in prison for up to 25 years. That seemed, to me, very much like the movie Minority Report. It is certainly not charter-compliant, so I am glad to see that it was removed.

Elizabeth May, Saanich—Gulf Islands

Green
“I will vote for this bill so it goes to committee. I want to change it there to make the penalties much stronger. Social media company leaders should risk going to jail if a child in Canada is harmed.”
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, I respect enormously the fact that the member is an engineer. I am a lawyer. I look at this bill and ask why we do not tighten it to create a real incentive for tech giants to live up to the duty to protect our children, enforceable by law. By attaching that duty specifically to the directors of the companies, they would feel a real incentive to avoid ending up with strict liability and going to jail if a child in Canada is harmed. I want to put forward amendments to that effect when we get to committee. I will vote for the bill to get to committee. We need to tackle this. I wonder if she has any thoughts on the idea of tightening up the punishments.

Marilyn Gladu, Sarnia—Lambton—Bkejwanong

Liberal
“I want this bill to go to committee, and I want to see the member's changes. We should put more details in the law itself instead of leaving them to bureaucrats.”
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, as an engineer, I am very detail-oriented in general. I would say the more detail we can put in the bill and not leave to regulators or bureaucrats, the better. I look forward to the amendments the member opposite will bring to committee.

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  1. Government Orders Safe Social Media Act 38 statements
  2. Government Orders Safe Social Media Act 81 statements
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  17. Government Orders Safe Social Media Act 23 statements
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