Business of Supply

An opposition motion debated during Business of Supply criticizing the government’s proposed $25-billion Canada Strong Fund, a national sovereign wealth fund to be financed by borrowing and used to invest in major projects. Government members said the fund would attract private investment, follows models used in countries like Norway and Singapore, and supports a long-term economic plan. Conservative, Bloc Québécois, and Green members opposed or questioned the plan, saying real wealth funds are built from surpluses rather than debt, that few details or governance rules have been provided, that project choices could be politically influenced, and that the money would be better spent on cost-of-living relief or raised by taxing oil company profits. Some members also raised the government’s handling of the trade war and its budget deficit during the discussion.Written by AI from the debate. Updated .

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12 statements

Scott Anderson, Vernon—Lake Country—Monashee

Conservative
“I want the member to explain how we can create a national wealth fund with borrowed money instead of saved money.”
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, with regard to the sovereign wealth fund, I recently asked my colleague the same question. The other day, my neighbour showed me his bank account, and it was enormous. I thought, “This is a secret”, so I maxed out my credit cards and put the money in my savings account. For some reason, when I went to my accountant, he said I will never retire. I am wondering if the member can explain to me the difference between my neighbour’s bank account, in which he saved money over time, and my savings account that I just put money into. Can you explain the difference between those two?

William Stevenson, Yellowhead

Conservative
“Alberta has sent 600 billion dollars to the rest of the country over the last 50 years, which is why its wealth fund is smaller than Norway's. I am worried this plan has no clear rules. I want to know who will run it and if the Prime Minister will just use it to help his friends.”
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank my B.C. colleague for giving us a bit of an Alberta history lesson. Part of it was almost entertaining. When I look at this, I am a little concerned. One of the issues here is that the Liberals want to compare Norway to Alberta, whereas Alberta has had, over the last 50 years, $600 billion in transfer funds go out of the province to the rest of the country. If that was actually in the Alberta heritage fund, we would probably be exceeding Norway at this time. My concern is with the lack of structure. Who is going to be in control of this? How are they going to be appointed? Is the member concerned that this is just going to be another slush fund for the Prime Minister to dictate to his buddies to invest in what the government is concerned about?

Michelle Rempel Garner, Calgary Nose Hill

Conservative
“I oppose the government's plan to borrow $25 billion for a new investment fund. The government is already in heavy debt, and this plan risks taxpayers' money on politically chosen projects instead of lowering taxes or helping with the cost of living.”
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Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, this week the Liberals dropped two big pieces of news. One was a budget that, from what I can see, would not deliver any actual, tangible results for Canadians, with a massive deficit. This, of course, impacts Canadians who are presently struggling to pay their bills. At the same time, the Prime Minister announced $25 billion of debt for a new “fund”. To be fair to the Prime Minister, the political spin that his team has put on this expenditure is really something. By billing this debt fund as the Canada Strong fund, which is kind of patriotism-coded; a sovereign wealth fund, which is kind of freedom-coded; and a national savings and investment account, which is sort of stability-coded, the Prime Minister’s launch announcement had a level of overhype that would have made any starving founder pitching to a VC blush. At this point, I cannot really blame the Prime Minister for this level of shamelessness. He is staring down the barrel of a Liberal-induced faltering national economy, he has a debt-ridden government, and the man is counting on the Canadian establishment’s current enamourment with him to give in to the feels of the moment and not look too closely under the hood of this new debt fund. However, no good investment manager would do that, and Canadians should not either. Canadians should have a full picture of the risk the Prime Minister is asking them to undertake not only with their tax dollars but also, as he implored them in his announcement, with additional post-tax contributions. He is actually asking Canadians to invest in this debt fund not just with a very high amount of tax dollars but also with personal post-tax contributions. If the devil is in the details of the Prime Minister’s pitch, there sure is not a lot for Canadians to go on. For starters, the Prime Minister’s fund model is, as colleagues have mentioned, built on debt. Therefore, it is misleading for him or anyone else to pitch it to investors as a true sovereign wealth fund in the same vein as Norway’s, which is built on the actual wealth and surplus created by resource revenues. By contrast, the Prime Minister’s $25-billion expenditure would be entirely debt financed at a time of widening structural Liberal deficits, which is sort of the same as an individual investor who is already in serious debt borrowing more money to go out and buy stocks. Further, outside of the announcement that a Crown corporation would manage it, every other detail remains vague, including who would run it. I am assuming it would be Liberal appointees. The criteria that would be used to fund it are similarly opaque. The lack of announced guardrails to stop the $25 billion from being funnelled into politically directed projects should also raise red flags for Canadians. Allocation decisions made by the debt fund, according to the Prime Minister’s remarks, would follow government priorities rather than pure market returns. The Liberals have a dismal track record of picking winners: for example, the billions of dollars they funnelled into EV battery plants that left the country with no return; the superclusters, for which there is a word we use now, but it is not parliamentary; the green slush fund; and the arrive scam app. The government’s track record is literally funnelling taxpayers’ money. Now they are saying to add additional post-tax dollar contributions into a fund, and they do not really have a track record of delivering. On top of that, the government’s inherent ability to place such a bet successfully in any circumstance should make Canadians take the claims of big-time benefits that the Prime Minister has been touting with a grain of salt. There are other problems to consider related to the viability and benefit of the Prime Minister’s debt fund, too, especially in the context of Canada’s stalled economy. First, the Prime Minister’s debt fund could create something called a crowding-out effect. By pumping $25 billion of subsidized capital into Ottawa’s preferred projects, the debt fund could massively distort private markets. That matters because of pension funds, for anybody who has invested in a pension fund or is drawing on a pension fund right now. Banks and institutional investors already deploy billions of dollars into Canadian infrastructure and resources. They would now have to compete against a government player that is armed with massive taxpayer backing and a direct link to politics. That is a huge market distortion that could affect the stability of somebody’s retirement savings, for example. The result could be higher costs for genuine private projects or capital simply fleeing for greener or more level pastures. In that same vein, far from a guaranteed hedge against economic risk, what the Prime Minister is proposing with this debt fund has the potential to exert further inflationary pressure on Canada’s economy. Second, the Prime Minister’s early signals of international investing with the debt fund should raise eyebrows big time on its supposed Canada strong angle. Even more Canadian tax dollars could flow abroad while pressing domestic needs wait unfulfilled. Conversely, if the debt fund’s expenditures stay strictly domestic, it could become a captive buyer for Liberal-favoured ventures. Either way, this has the makings of a giant boondoggle and a mess. I want to say that we have seen this movie before with the Prime Minister. It was something called GFANZ, this big fund he tried to put together. What ended up happening was that members balked at the requirements to phase out financing without clear backstops or substitute goods. At the end of the day, what ended up happening was that the thing fell apart. Members may colour me a little skeptical, but I am not sure which investment manager would capitalize $25 billion right now under this lack of detail. I sure would not, and I will not be voting to support it, because that would be a bad decision on behalf of my constituents. This conundrum further underscores why this expenditure should not be referred to as a sovereign wealth fund, because decisions made with government debt have different opportunity costs to evaluate than those made with true wealth funds. The debt fund also has massive potential for mission creep. If the debt fund’s scope stays vague, as it is right now, it will likely expand quietly once initial public scrutiny fades. For that reason, scrutiny should be paid to the fact that this expenditure will also likely duplicate existing bureaucracy, and it will duplicate and increase overhead and, conveniently, Liberal board appointees. It would be duplicating things like the Canada Growth Fund and the Infrastructure Bank. There are other flags that Canadians should be concerned about too. The Prime Minister mentioned that the debt fund would grow through mechanisms like “asset recycling”, which in Ottawa is often code for selling public assets on the cheap to insiders. The debt fund also has the potential to impinge on provincial jurisdiction, particularly if the debt fund capitalizes from resource export taxes or remittances of any kind. Resources are definitively the jurisdiction of provinces, and a move to reset constitutional order would not only be a major concern but create great instability at a time when the Prime Minister should be trying to do more to create national unity across the federation. Right now, though, it is like a little poke in the eye there. Is he going to say to companies, “Oh, hey, you have to pay a tax to get a Bill C-5 exemption or to get around Bill C-69,” instead of just doing away with the regulatory tape that is making it difficult and risky for investors to capitalize big projects in Canada? Aside from all these issues, there is another big problem with Canadians writing the Prime Minister a blank cheque for this project, and it is opportunity costs. With $25 billion, we could cut taxes, pay down debt or deliver direct affordability relief for struggling Canadians. Interest on the federal debt already consumes tens of billions of dollars and is more than health transfers to the provinces. Canadians will be faced with even more of the same to pay for this new expenditure at a time when inflation is already straining affordability in every aspect of Canadian life. If building a bigger pool of capital for major projects is what the Prime Minister is trying to solve for, arguably the structural problem Canada faces is not the lack of a debt fund but the lack of investment certainty in its regulatory and tax environment. The government should be scrapping bills like Bill C-69 to attract the capital into the country naturally and more sustainably to see big infrastructure projects built out. Without reform in those areas, the Prime Minister’s new debt fund is throwing money at a problem that money cannot solve. He also has not begun to answer why families should lend their potential retirement savings to this fund instead of traditional instruments like RRSPs or, frankly, proven pension fund managers. Nor has he explained whether, if the debt fund loses money, taxpayers will backstop it at the expense of more pressing needs. Investing in a scheme that has the potential to pay earlier investors using money from new investors rather than having any actual profit has a name, and the Prime Minister would be well served to remember that. At the end of the day, I do not think the Prime Minister, a supposed investment guru back in the day, would actually invest in this fund, which was put forward by him, the Prime Minister, and Canadians should not either.

Michelle Rempel Garner, Calgary Nose Hill

Conservative
“The government wants us to approve billions of dollars without a real plan. I will not support spending money based only on hope.”
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Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, imagine a founder walking into a VC office and saying, “Hey, I don’t really know what my product is and don’t really have any sort of framework to govern this, but would you give me $25 billion? You can just put it on your credit card.” That is what we are being asked to do here. The member asks if I believe in this like it is the tooth fairy or something. I am sorry, I think the tooth fairy is broke in Canada right now. We cannot rely on hope and dreams and all of these sorts of things without tangible plans. This is—

Michelle Rempel Garner, Calgary Nose Hill

Conservative
“The Prime Minister breaks his promises on trade. His bad spending sets a terrible example for everyone, and it is costing Canadians.”
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Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, yes, it is kind of wild that the Prime Minister has delivered nothing on the trade front. I thought that was his big promise. The track record with this guy is he makes a big promise and then he does not deliver. Canadians are not only starting to wake up to this fact, but it is costing them too. I will just close with this anecdote. My husband really likes motorcycles, probably too much. Yesterday he was making a pitch to me that he should buy this motorcycle. It is probably not the best decision, do not encourage him, but this is what he said to me. He said, “Don’t worry. I’ll just put it on my sovereign debt fund. I got it. We’re good.” I would just like to tell the Prime Minister that he is encouraging bad behaviour among everybody.

Jasraj Hallan, Calgary East

Conservative
“Real investment funds use extra money, not debt. I want my colleague to say more about why Canadians worry about the Prime Minister's fund, given the government's history of giving money to insiders.”
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, my friend from Calgary Nose Hill is right when she says that real sovereign wealth funds like in Norway run from surpluses, resource revenue or royalties, and they do not invest within Norway because of inflationary issues that could come up from that. I was wondering if she could expand on a point she raised about why Canadians are so concerned about this debt fund by the Liberal Prime Minister given the Liberals’ track record of slush funds, giving money to Liberal-connected insiders and the corruption and scandals we have seen over the last 10 years.

Michelle Rempel Garner, Calgary Nose Hill

Conservative
“I want the House to vote for this motion and stop this massive spending. It is a bad idea and a waste of tax money.”
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, there is a character in Greek mythology named Cassandra, somebody who is doomed to know the future but nobody believes them. I feel like right now all the speeches that are happening are like Cassandra’s speeches: this is going to fail, this is a bad idea, this is not the right decision. This is why the opposition is saying we cannot support this massive expenditure in the form that it is right now. It is crazy, especially given, as my colleague said, the government’s poor track record in this regard. I do not want to be watching a clip of this speech years from now saying that I was right and nobody listened on that side of the House. The government would be better served to say that this is a bad use of tax funds and that there are other things Canadians could benefit from. The government should pump the brakes on this, realize it is not a great idea and vote for this motion today, which supports those principles.

Eric Lefebvre, Richmond—Arthabaska

Conservative
“I oppose the government's plan to borrow $25 billion to create a sovereign wealth fund. Other countries build these funds with extra money, not debt. We already have an infrastructure bank that has not spent all of its money. Creating a new fund will add wasteful bureaucracy and risk taxpayers' money if the investments fail.”
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, we are here today to discuss the Liberal government’s announcement concerning the creation of a so-called sovereign wealth fund amounting to $25 billion. We are not talking about $25 million or $2.5 billion, but $25 billion, charged to the national credit card. As a Conservative member, I want to be clear. We believe in strategic investment, but we do not believe in writing a blank cheque using the country’s credit card. In the end, the government will not be the one footing the bill. Canadian families, workers, small businesses, our children, our grandchildren and future generations will be the ones paying for it. A fund built on credit is a risky bet. The first critical problem with this sovereign wealth fund is the source of the funds. It is not funded through surpluses. It is not funded through surplus revenues, such as proceeds from natural resource development. The other countries mentioned by the Minister of Finance and National Revenue for comparison purposes are all countries involved in developing their natural resources. They have budget surpluses, extra funds, which they use to create their sovereign wealth fund. Ours will be funded through debt. In other words, the government is proposing to charge $25 billion to the credit card at a time when inflation is hitting households hard, the cost of living is skyrocketing, and federal debt is reaching historic levels. The government is choosing to add another layer of financial risk. A debt-financed sovereign wealth fund is a gamble with other people’s money. When markets fluctuate, as they always do, it is taxpayers who absorb the losses. This is an unnecessary duplication of tools that already exist. There is another fundamental question. Why create a fund when we already have existing tools? Canada already has the Canada Infrastructure Bank, an institution created specifically to finance transformative projects, attract private investment, support the development of strategic infrastructure, and share financial risks. It was supposed to be the central tool for investing in the country’s economic future. The Canada Infrastructure Bank has $35 billion in capital. It has currently committed only $18.1 billion of that amount. The remaining $16.9 billion is awaiting allocation by the government. This government is not even able to make the most of the existing bureaucracy. If the Canada Infrastructure Bank is already doing the job, why create another vehicle? Creating a new fund means multiplying bureaucratic structures. The Liberals are experts in that. They are the champions of bureaucracy, the champions of structures and the list goes on. Creating a new fund also means watering down responsibilities, complicating accountability and increasing administrative costs. Instead of improving what already exists, the government is choosing to reinvent the wheel—and at great expense. Another major danger of this fund is the risk of political interference. When a government controls a $25-billion fund, there is always a risk that investment decisions will be influenced by political considerations, election priorities or partisan regional interests. A sovereign wealth fund—a true sovereign wealth fund—must be independent, transparent and rigorously managed. The Norwegian sovereign wealth fund, which is worth $2 trillion and is considered the best-performing sovereign wealth fund in the world, is not allowed to invest in the domestic market in order to ensure it stays independent. History shows us that when governments directly manage billions of dollars, the risks of favouritism increase. We have to ask ourselves some serious questions. Who will decide on the investments? What will the criteria be? How much transparency will there actually be? Who will bear the losses if investments fail? All of these questions remain unanswered. There will be losses. That is inevitable in any investment portfolio. Once again, taxpayers are the ones who are going to pay, with a governance that is still unclear and that does not provide answers to our questions. Another concerning point is the lack of clarity regarding the governance of the fund. We have heard some big announcements, but not a lot of details. How will the fund be structured and managed? What accountability mechanisms, investment limits and loss protection mechanisms will there be? A $25‑billion fund cannot be based solely on vague promises. It must be based on strict rules, robust mechanisms and absolute transparency. Right now, all we are getting is slogans. There are no guarantees. It is also important to look at what is being done elsewhere. Before becoming Prime Minister, Mark Carney was involved in similar initiatives—

Eric Lefebvre, Richmond—Arthabaska

Conservative
“I oppose creating a $25-billion investment fund with borrowed money. It is too risky for taxpayers, and the money would be better spent on lowering taxes for families or funding local infrastructure.”
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, before becoming Prime Minister, the current Prime Minister had another life and was involved in similar initiatives in the United Kingdom. The idea in that case was also to use public funds to stimulate strategic investments, but the British experience revealed certain limitations, including results that were slower than expected, investments that were concentrated in certain sectors, and lingering questions about real profitability. This reveals something critical. Setting up a fund does not guarantee financial success, and it is not the size of a fund that creates prosperity. It is fiscal discipline and the quality of decisions that create prosperity. The opportunity cost is what could have been done instead. When we talk about $25 billion, we also have to consider the opportunity costs, because even borrowed money could be put to other uses. The government could have decided to ease the tax burden on families, who are currently being squeezed. It could have invested directly in critical infrastructure, supporting municipalities that are desperately underfunded. Instead, the government is choosing to invest that money in an uncertain financial vehicle, and that is a risky choice. This decision will have consequences for decades to come. Financial markets are unpredictable. Even the best investors suffer losses. Imagine a simple scenario: a global recession, a market crash, investments losing value. What will happen? The government will have to inject more money into the fund or absorb major losses. Once again, taxpayers will be left holding the bag. This fund does not eliminate risks. It transfers them directly to the public using Canadians’ credit card. Conservatives believe in a different approach. We believe in fiscal discipline, financial responsibility, using existing tools efficiently, and, above all, reducing government waste. Before creating a new fund, we should seriously evaluate the effectiveness of the Canada Infrastructure Bank. We should improve what already exists, not add more costly structures. Canadians deserve better. Canadians work hard. They pay their taxes and budget carefully. They know they do not want to live on credit forever. They expect the same level of discipline from their government, but this sovereign wealth fund proposal gives the opposite impression. It gives the impression of a government that is willing to take on major financial risks without providing sufficient guarantees or full transparency. To conclude, I want to make something clear. This debate is not anti-investment. This debate is not anti-innovation. This debate is anti-financial recklessness. Creating a debt-financed $25-billion fund creates unnecessary duplication, increases financial risks, opens the door to political interference and imposes a heavy burden on future generations. They deserve transparent investments. That is why, in the name of fiscal responsibility and transparency, and on behalf of taxpayers, I am against the creation of this sovereign wealth fund.

Eric Lefebvre, Richmond—Arthabaska

Conservative
“I do not trust the Liberals with public money. They have wasted Canadians' money for 11 years and doubled our debt from $700 billion to $1.4 trillion.”
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Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, it is not Canadians I am worried about. What I am worried about is how the Liberal government manages Canadians’ public finances. This government has been wasting Canadians’ money for 11 years now. When the Liberals came to power, the debt was $700 billion. Now, 11 years later, it is $1.4 trillion. What worries me is putting money in Liberal hands.

Eric Lefebvre, Richmond—Arthabaska

Conservative
“I do not make as much money as the Prime Minister, and I would not invest the way he does. Conservatives believe Canadians should be free to choose how they invest their own money.”
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, unfortunately, I do not make the same kind of money our Prime Minister does. My investments are far more modest. However, that is certainly not the choice I would make. As for Canadians, Conservatives naturally are in favour of freedom of choice, so I will leave it to Canadians to make their own choices regarding their investments.

Eric Lefebvre, Richmond—Arthabaska

Conservative
“The government is creating too many new groups and rules to build things. We already have the Canada Infrastructure Bank to do that job. The Liberals should use the tools we already have.”
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Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague for his question because, once again, we have proof that what the Liberal government is doing is doubling and tripling the infrastructure. It is adding more layers and more structures. We already have the Canada Infrastructure Bank, which is there to do the job. The Liberals should be using the tools that are in place and continuing to build Canada.

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