Business of Supply

The debate focused on government spending, the national debt, and the rising cost of living in relation to Government Orders. The government defended its fiscal policies by citing Canada’s strong AAA credit rating and highlighting investments in affordability measures and essential programs, while opposition members countered that growing debt and interest payments pose risks to social services and are driving up the cost of living. Some members also questioned the government about economic stability given external factors like tariffs and expressed concern over debt warnings issued by credit rating agencies. Consequently, members of the opposition called on the Prime Minister to appear before the Finance Committee to explain his plan for spending and deficit reduction.Written by AI from the debate. Updated .

Official text (opens in a new tab)

105 statements

Mario Beaulieu, La Pointe-de-l'Île

Bloc Québécois
“The Conservatives say the government spends more on debt interest than on health care. If they cut the cost of the debt, will they promise to give more health care money to Quebec and the provinces?”
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, the Conservative motion says that the Liberal government is spending more on servicing the debt than on health care transfers. If the Conservatives ever managed to reduce debt servicing, would they commit to increase health transfers to Quebec and the provinces?

Pierre Poilievre, Leader of the Opposition

Conservative
“The government spends more money paying interest on the debt than on health care. Six million Canadians do not have a family doctor, and wait times are getting worse. Canada should pay down its debt and spend that money on health care instead.”
  • Reply to a debate question

    Relevance 45 of 100

    None of this reply addressed the specific point raised or the topic under debate.

    See full analysis
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, it is true that the Liberal government spends more on servicing the debt than on health care. Conservatives believe that it should be the other way around. Canadians pay income tax and other taxes to get health care services. They deserve to have the best health care service in the world, but this is far from the case. Our current health care system includes 6 million people with no family doctor. The waiting lists keep getting longer. Within the OECD, we rank among the worst countries when it comes to health care services. One problem is that the Liberals are diverting money from our system to bankers to pay down the interest on our debt. We should pay down our debt and support health.

Carol Anstey, Long Range Mountains

Conservative
“Canada needs to control its spending. When we bring this up, the government asks what we would cut. I want our leader to explain our plan to spend less money.”
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, oftentimes in the House when we talk about these subjects, the common response we get from the members opposite is, “What would Conservatives cut?” I am curious if the Leader of the Opposition would like to expand on the Conservatives’ exact approach to practising fiscal restraint, which we desperately need in this country right now.

Pierre Poilievre, Leader of the Opposition

Conservative
“The Liberals ask what we would cut. We have found about $200 billion in savings. We would cancel the $150-billion Alto train project. We would end subsidies and loans to big corporations, including ones the Prime Minister has a personal interest in. We would end benefits for fake refugees and cut foreign aid. We want to cut this wasteful government spending and leave that money with Canadians.”
  • Reply to a debate question

    Respect 77 of 100

    This statement targeted a person rather than their actions or views: “that the Prime Minister has a personal interest in.”.

    See full analysis
  • Reply to a debate question

    Relevance 100 of 100

    Of this reply, 100% addressed the question or point raised.

    See full analysis
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, the Liberals always ask, as if it were some kind of gotcha question, “What would we cut?” We have only found about $200 billion of savings that we have identified and stated publicly. To start with, there is the Alto rail disaster. The government wants to spend $150 billion on a train that is already off the tracks even though it has not built a single inch of rail. That is $150 billion right there. Massive increases in corporate welfare, which favours corporate power brokers with massive interest-free loans, grants, subsidies and other favours, would be reversed. This is companies such as Brookfield and others that the Prime Minister has a personal interest in. While he hides his money abroad, he mostly forces Canadians to subsidize his corporate interests here at home. We would get rid of the deluxe benefits for fake and phony refugees, who get more benefit from our tax dollars than our hard-working seniors do. We would cut back on foreign aid and stop sending our money out of Canada. It belongs to the Canadian people. We would bring it back to our people. I just came up with four or five excellent examples of how we could cut back the enormous, wasteful, morbidly obese government we have on the other side of the aisle, so Canadians can have a more rewarding life.

Guillaume Deschênes-Thériault, Madawaska—Restigouche

Liberal
“The Conservatives only offer catchphrases, but our government is taking real action on the cost of living. We cut middle-class taxes and helped families with tax credits, cheaper child care, and rebates for heat pumps. We are also funding local water pipes to help build more homes, and helping farmers grow more food here so grocery bills go down.”
  • Speech on a motion

    Respect 98 of 100

    This statement targeted a person rather than their actions or views: “he came here just to record his social media sound bites for this week”.

    See full analysis
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time with the member for Kings—Hants. We just heard a speech by the Leader of the Opposition that was once again full of catchphrases. I think he came here just to record his social media sound bites for this week. If Canadians are interested in practical measures, then they need to look to this side of the House. We are implementing measures to strengthen the Canadian economy, which is working for everyone. I think that Canadians see right through the official opposition’s tactics when they hear this kind of rhetoric. We need only look at the results of the most recent by-elections and polling numbers. Canadians clearly favour our approach, which is based on practical measures that make a difference in people’s lives. On that note, I will focus on the content of my speech, because today’s motion deals with the cost of living. To address the cost of living, we can implement immediate measures. I am thinking of the enhancement of what was previously known as the GST/HST credit and the tax cut for the middle class that we announced last year. These are measures that put money back into Canadians’ pockets now. That said, we need to think from a medium- and long-term perspective. I am thinking in particular of the national food security strategy that we launched earlier this year. This strategy aims to address factors within Canada’s agri-food ecosystem to help stabilize grocery prices over the medium and long term. One of the pillars of this strategy is to increase food production in Canada. To achieve this, we are implementing a range of programs designed to support innovation in the food sector, help our entrepreneurs modernize their equipment, and assist them in acquiring the capabilities needed to do more processing in Canada. Our goal is to have more Canadian food on our plates and to ensure that our entrepreneurs already active in the agri-food sector have the means to modernize and become more efficient: With the same workforce, how could they improve their equipment and processes so they can produce more food right here at home? I am also thinking of all the tax incentives we are putting in place to increase our production of fruits and vegetables in Canada year-round, particularly through our incentives for the construction of greenhouses and other controlled-environment growing facilities. Our goal is to increase Canada’s food sovereignty and reduce our dependence on others. Countries that are dependent on international trade are more likely to be affected by supply chain disruptions. That is why conflicts affect the price of groceries in Canada. However, if we boost domestic production, we are less likely to see price fluctuations based on changes happening abroad. I am also thinking about the exchange rate. When we import a lot of products and the exchange rate varies, that also affects prices. Strengthening our food sovereignty at home helps stabilize grocery prices over the longer term. Boosting competition is also important. We know that. In Canada, five major retailers control nearly 75% of Canada’s grocery market. Our national food security strategy will allow us to help independent grocers buy and transport products at competitive prices without relying on the big grocery chains. We need to make it easier for independent grocers to access supply chains through various programs, increase competition in the sector and improve grocery prices for consumers. Thanks to the national strategy, we will also be providing nearly $130 million to the Competition Bureau and the Competition Tribunal to investigate, prevent and counter anti-competitive business practices. Rules are in place, but we must have the means to enforce them. Finally, we need to reduce red tape. In fact, a bill has already been introduced to this end, because red tape can have an impact on production costs. Strengthening the Canadian economy and supporting Canadians also requires strategic investment in our infrastructure. These investments must be made in partnership not only with the provinces, but also with municipalities. At the end of the day, there is only one taxpayer, and it is that taxpayer who ultimately foots the bill. When we invest alongside local governments in infrastructure projects that are essential to our communities, we help place those municipalities on a sounder financial footing. If the federal government does not contribute to major infrastructure projects, local governments may have no choice but to adjust their tax rates, and this will be reflected in our constituents’ property tax bills. That is why I think it is important for the federal government to be involved when there are plans to upgrade water and sewer systems to increase housing capacity in our communities, for example. Last summer, I was involved in making three announcements where the federal government, the provincial government and the municipalities made joint investments in water and sewer infrastructure projects, not only because these systems were aging but also to increase housing capacity in the areas where the work is being done. If we want to grow our communities and increase our housing stock, we must ensure that we have the proper water and sewer infrastructure in place to support that growth. I am thinking about the announcement that I made last June in Campbellton, alongside the late Mayor Soucy, regarding the upgrades to infrastructure on Notre Dame Street in the Atholville area. I also made an announcement in Grand Falls about the relocation and replacement of older sanitary sewer infrastructure on Taylor Street, Park Street and O’Regan Street. In addition to supporting residential development in this area, this project will also address critical environmental challenges because the Saint John River is nearby and we could see that a manhole was on the verge of collapse. This could have led to a serious environmental incident in Grand Falls. Through these investments, we are not only supporting the construction of more housing but also addressing an environmental imperative. My last example is the announcement of more than $1 million that we made in Edmundston to extend water and sewer lines to service a residential project on Laboissonnière Avenue, des Mélèzes Street, and Mgr Lacroix Avenue. These are tangible ways that we can help our communities and all citizens who benefit from these projects. As for the cost of living, we know that the price of electricity is also a major concern for Canadians. We know that the heating method used can have a significant impact on electricity bills. That is why we recently announced the launch of the national heat pump rebate program to help up to 820,000 households across the country switch to more efficient electric heat pumps. Our goal is to increase the number of homes that are more energy efficient in order to reduce electricity consumption and save people money every month. Heat pump systems have several advantages over traditional heating systems. They are more energy efficient, lowering energy costs for consumers. They also combine heating and cooling within the same system for year-round comfort, in the summer with air conditioning and in the winter with heating. What is more, it helps us meet our greenhouse gas emissions reduction targets. Under this program, households with below-median incomes will get up to $10,000, and other households will get up to $2,000. This is another concrete measure put in place to help people cope with the cost of living and also to meet our environmental objectives. As for the cost of living, I think it is also important to mention our affordable child care program, which we launched in 2021. The results speak for themselves. The statistics show that the labour force participation rate of young parents, particularly young mothers, has increased since this program was launched. Child care spaces have been created and made available to families in multiple communities across Canada, and we continue to work with provinces and territories to strengthen the early learning and child care system across Canada for the long term. Huge progress has been made over the past five years, but we know that the needs are great and that there is still a need for more affordable child care in our communities. There are still waiting lists. There is more work to be done, but when we look at the progress made over the past five years in expanding access to affordable child care in Canada, we see that great strides have been made. In fact, last June, an announcement of up to $5.4 billion over two years was announced. This is in addition to the more than $58 billion in funding that has already been allocated to this program since 2021 under the current extension agreements with the provinces and territories. This is another example of a concrete investment that has an impact on the cost of living, on Canadian families and on their ability to fully participate in the labour market. I will conclude by saying that addressing the cost of living and strengthening the Canadian economy so that it works for everyone requires concrete measures and action, not just empty rhetoric. The official opposition’s rhetoric is always followed by votes against every measure we put in place. On this side of the aisle, we take the issues seriously, take action, and implement concrete measures.

Burton Bailey, Red Deer

Conservative
“The government now spends more on interest for its debt than it sends to provinces for health care. I want to know if the government will cut its spending so life can be more affordable for Canadians.”
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, according to the Parliamentary Budget Officer, public debt charges are the fastest-growing major expense and have already surpassed Canada health transfer payments. That means Canadians are paying more to service debt than they receive for health care. Can my hon. colleague think of a few ways the Liberal government could improve the amount of debt? Could it cut back on its spending so that Canadians can live more affordably?

Guillaume Deschênes-Thériault, Madawaska—Restigouche

Liberal
“We are managing public money carefully. We are reviewing department spending to make sure it is used well. We are also investing in the economy so it can grow and pay for the services Canadians need with the cost of living.”
  • Reply to a debate question

    Relevance 46 of 100

    None of this reply addressed the specific point raised or the topic under debate.

    See full analysis
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, on this side of the House, we are managing our fiscal situation meticulously. We have undertaken a review of government spending across the various departments. We are ensuring that public finances are managed effectively. The goal is to have sufficient fiscal flexibility to be able to meet the needs of Canadians. When we implement various measures to strengthen and stimulate the Canadian economy, the idea is to have a thriving economy that allows us to fund the various social services that help Canadians cope with the cost of living.

Mario Beaulieu, La Pointe-de-l'Île

Bloc Québécois
“Our debt costs are very high, but the government is giving up a lot of money. It dropped the tax on big American tech companies, which hurt our culture and media. It also stopped our broadcast regulator from collecting fees from them, and used public tax dollars to make up the difference instead. I want my colleague to explain why the government did this.”
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, I know that my colleague defends French and culture, and we all agree that debt servicing costs are huge. In this context, we find it hard to understand why the government is forgoing considerable revenue by eliminating, for example, the digital services tax on American tech giants, which are a threat to our culture and our media. Furthermore, the government refused to allow the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission to collect levies from these same tech giants, which would have brought in considerable revenue for culture. Instead, it dipped into people’s taxes to try to compensate for the cancellation of the levies. What does my colleague say to that?

Guillaume Deschênes-Thériault, Madawaska—Restigouche

Liberal
“Our government is spending $4.1 billion to support official languages and French-speaking minority communities. Even with inflation, this is the most money Canada has ever invested in official languages. It funds French schools, health care, legal services, and jobs. This money is vital for regions like mine, which has many French speakers outside Quebec.”
  • Reply to a debate question

    Relevance 34 of 100

    None of this reply addressed the specific point raised or the topic under debate.

    See full analysis
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased that my colleague alluded to the official languages in the preamble to his question. It gives me an opportunity to remind the House of the Liberal government’s historic investment in the official languages. The action plan for official languages 2023-2028 invests $4.1 billion in supporting the official languages and the vitality of francophone minority communities. Even taking inflation into account, this is the largest investment in the official languages in the history of Canada. It lets us support French-language education in our communities, take measures to support health, access to justice and employment services, and document our realities better through Statistics Canada data. In all, over a dozen federal organizations are involved in implementing the action plan for official languages, which is generating tangible benefits across Canada. I know what I am talking about, because I represent Madawaska—Restigouche, one of the ridings with the highest concentrations of francophones outside Quebec. These investments in the official languages are vital to my region.

Alana Hirtle, Cumberland—Colchester

Liberal
“Some children in my riding go to school hungry. I want the member to explain how our government helps families by feeding kids at school.”
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague for his excellent speech. One of the issues in my riding has been children coming to school without having breakfast or something to eat. I know the government has been doing some work on this. I am wondering if the member would be able to explain more about how we have been helping families through food at school.

Guillaume Deschênes-Thériault, Madawaska—Restigouche

Liberal
“Children cannot learn when they are hungry. We created a permanent national school food program to help. In New Brunswick, we are spending 11.3 million dollars over three years to provide free breakfast in all schools and support a pay-what-you-can lunch program.”
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, I share my colleague’s concern. No child should ever have to spend a day in the classroom with an empty stomach. It is not conducive to learning. As a government, we have taken this issue seriously. We established Canada’s national school food program, and given the program’s success and importance, we made it permanent. For example, in my province of New Brunswick, this translates into an agreement valued at $11.3 million over three years. This investment is making the free breakfast program available in all schools across the province of New Brunswick. In addition, the government is supporting the launch of a pay-what-you-can lunch program administered by our provincial partners. This is a good example of a concrete measure that allows us to support children and families, while helping to create a healthy learning environment that meets their needs.

Kody Blois, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister

Liberal
“I do not support this Conservative motion. Government spending is not what is making life more expensive. Global issues, like wars and trade disruptions, are driving up prices everywhere. Canada actually has the lowest net debt to our economy in the G7, and the second-lowest deficit. We are also cutting $80 billion in government spending over five years, while helping families with programs like child care and school food. The Conservatives ignore these facts, and their own platform called for $130 billion in new spending.”
  • A repeated line

    “Is it the Canada child benefit?”

    Said 7 times by 3 members since April 23.

    Every time it was said
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure, as always, to rise in the House on behalf of my constituents in Kings—Hants, but also in my role as Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister, to take part in the debate on the Conservative opposition day motion moved today concerning Canada’s fiscal situation. I would like to raise a few important points for the benefit of Canadians who may be watching at home today and following the debates in the House of Commons in order to better understand the overall situation. In my view and in the government’s view, the wording of the motion moved today by the Conservatives is problematic because it fails to take some crucial context into account, including Canada’s fiscal position in general. I am going to start by going to the first point in the text of the motion. The Conservatives assert that “the cost of government is driving up the cost of living.” I would reject the premise of that. The text of the motion fails to take into consideration the fact that the government has a comprehensive expenditure review, and the government will be reducing government expenditures by $80 billion over the next five years. Part of that includes downsizing the number of staff of the Government of Canada, the federal government, and targets have already been met in that domain. The motion fails to recognize that global events are having an impact on the cost of living for all countries, not just Canada. There is a blockade at the Strait of Hormuz, which is impacting global energy prices, and that is being felt globally. That is, of course, being felt by Canadians because it is a domestic challenge we are facing, but it is being felt by countries around the world. There is also a war in eastern Europe, in Ukraine, and while we have been a steadfast ally in supporting Ukraine, the implications on food security and energy security are felt globally. We are in a global trading environment, but our government has focused on controlling what we can here at home. The Conservative text of the motion today fails to understand the work that the government is doing to reduce operational costs. The text of the motion does not take into consideration the government’s promise to balance the operating spending of the government by fiscal year 2028-29. That is important. I am a proud Nova Scotian. I get to see the work of rebuilding the Royal Canadian Navy in Halifax, in my home province, where we are making generational investments that started under a previous government but have continued. We have also reinvested in the River-class destroyer. Those are long-term investments that I hope all members of this House understand are important for protecting our sovereignty and providing for the women and men of the Canadian Armed Forces. Our goal as a government is to make sure that the expenditures the government takes on are part of the long-term industrial capacity and long-term economic growth of the country, and that we have a true balance in the types of operational spending the government is going to be taking on. The Conservatives ran on a platform in the last election that included approximately $130 billion of new spending. My hon. colleagues across the way can appreciate that it feels somewhat facetious to raise this type of measure when the platform promises of the Conservatives, had they been in government, would have led them to spend $130 billion above and beyond expenditures at the time. That is an important piece. Let us talk about Canada’s fiscal position. Governments are different from household finances, but let us think about the average Canadian. My wife and I, when we were able to buy a home, did not have the money to outright buy a home. We had to get a mortgage from a bank. We had to take on debt to build a future, raise a family and live in our community. Governments are no different. Governments have to look at the borrowing costs of making longer-term investments versus the sustainability of taking on the debt obligation to drive longer-term outcomes. Nowhere in the Conservative motion today does it highlight that Canada has the best fiscal position and net debt-to-GDP ratio in the G7. Canadians need to understand that Canada’s overall debt, as a relative size, is proportionate to the economy. We are four times the factor in the better than Germany. On the net debt-to-GDP ratio, our fiscal position is nine times better than the United States’s. We also have the second-lowest deficit in the G7. This is at a time when the government is cutting in certain areas and making tough choices, while at the same time making massive investments in energy, critical minerals, defence and the things that we believe are important long-term for the Canadian economy and our sovereignty. Nowhere in the opposition day motion does it highlight that to Canadians. It is the prerogative of His Majesty’s loyal opposition to choose how these texts are developed, but nowhere does it recognize that that is the case. The one area where I would agree with the Conservative position is that we have to remain vigilant. Bond rate increases are happening around the world. If we look at what is happening in France right now, its government bond yields are continuing to go up, which means the cost for the government to borrow is going higher and higher. That is now starting to be priced into the market. Our Prime Minister and this government understand that we need to maintain Canada’s fiscal position. That is exactly what we are doing in the face of global market uncertainty, particularly around financing. Today’s motion is also about affordability. The wording of the motion moved by the Conservatives links government spending with affordability and the cost of living in general. It is unfortunate that the Conservatives fail to mention the affordability measures that our government has introduced. For example, the national child care program is a concrete measure that is intended to help educate our young people, but it is also intended to make life more affordable for parents. We are working with the provinces and territories. As my hon. colleague from Cumberland—Colchester mentioned earlier, there are school programs in place across the country. Through Canada’s national school food program, we are ensuring that 400,000 students across the country have the opportunity to eat breakfast or lunch made with food from local farms. There is also the Canada child benefit. In my riding, that benefit offers families nearly $17 million to help them provide for their children. The amount is calculated based on household income. Those are concrete measures that the government gas put forward. I also mentioned the blockade of the Strait of Hormuz. That is why the government proposed eliminating the federal excise tax on gasoline and diesel. This is important. This measure is not there to guarantee that everything goes smoothly, but the government is using this concrete measure to give farmers, businesses and the general public a helping hand. I really look forward to the debate. I did not have the opportunity to be on my feet this morning. I look forward to hearing from my colleagues about how the Conservative position seems to not reconcile the fact that Canada is in a strong fiscal position. I have no problem with His Majesty’s loyal opposition highlighting that the government needs to remain diligent and needs to be thoughtful about its approach in the days ahead, but the text of the motion was presented to the House today without presenting any of the key statistics that actually outline Canada’s fiscal position. It is difficult, certainly, for a government, and, I would say, many members of Parliament, to be able to vote without those key statistics that provide Canadians a better overall picture of where we are at. The ability to talk about the fact that the debt servicing costs of governments across the world are rising because of bond rates and that governments need to be fiscally responsible and thoughtful, balancing operations and balancing budgets, while at the same time making long-term investments, is all fair game, but that level of nuance is something that I have rarely seen from the Conservative Party in my seven years, even though I have great friends across the way and there are some thoughtful colleagues, for sure. I would like to see the party in general try to find the types of texts that we could vote on and that, I think, are a little bit more balanced in terms of how they move forward.

Pat Kelly, Calgary Crowfoot

Conservative
“The Parliamentary Budget Officer warns that the cost of paying Canada's debt will more than double, from $24.5 billion to $59.3 billion. The government is borrowing more and more money each year, like refinancing a home until you cannot pay. I want the member to say if he is worried about this growing debt.”
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, the member said that the motion was short on text, but the motion referenced the Parliamentary Budget Officer’s report, which is full of data and statistics. I bring to his attention page 3, which reads: Public debt charges are the fastest-growing expense. They are projected to more than double from $24.5 billion in 2021‑22 to $59.3 billion in 2026‑27. I will let him reflect on that and maybe check through the report for some of the other data there. He spoke about households and talked about buying a house and getting a mortgage. I was in the mortgage business for 22 years. The government’s household analogy would be more like buying a house and then going back to the bank every year to refinance the house and borrow continually against the house. Sooner or later one hits a wall. Sooner or later the debt becomes unsustainable. Is he concerned about the Parliamentary Budget Officer’s warnings about sustainability?

Kody Blois, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister

Liberal
“Canada has the best financial position in the G7. The other member talks about how much our debt costs, but he ignores that our economy grew at the same time. We still need to be careful with spending, but our finances are in good shape.”
  • Reply to a debate question

    Relevance 96 of 100

    Of this reply, 95% addressed the question or point raised.

    See full analysis
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, first of all, with regard to the household analogy, what that member fails to recognize is that if he is concerned about the overall debt as a proportion of the size of our house, he should take a look across the street and in the neighbourhood and realize that, actually, we are in one of the best positions. That does not mean that we still do not have work to do, but nowhere in his public commentary that I have heard in the House today does he recognize that Canada actually has the strongest fiscal position within the G7. If he would like to highlight that we should take that barometer out wider and look at the G20 or other comparable countries, I think that is a fair question to raise, but when he talks about debt servicing charges going from $24 billion to over $50 billion, what he is failing to recognize is that the size of the economy also grew at the same time. When we deal in nominal numbers, it can feel like a very big number to the average Canadian. Again, I am not trying to shed the responsibility. The government has to be careful and thoughtful on this question. In the context of his framing, he does not highlight the fact that the overall economy has grown to such a size that Canada’s fiscal position remains sustainable.

Elizabeth May, Saanich—Gulf Islands

Green
“I will not vote for this Conservative motion, but I understand why people want the Prime Minister to speak to a committee. Justin Trudeau used to answer every question on Wednesdays, and it is hard to get that same accountability from the current Prime Minister. Is there a less partisan way to make the Prime Minister answer to Parliament more often?”
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, the Conservative opposition day motion is not one I could vote for, but I do sense a reason for asking the Prime Minister to come up for a committee. It is very hard to have the level of response and accountability from the current Prime Minister that we got from Justin Trudeau. Prime Minister Trudeau tried to create a tradition of Wednesday questions, where he would answer every question that came up through a Wednesday question period. I think he was trying to create a tradition that maybe the next the Prime Minister would continue. Does the hon. member for Kings—Hants think there is a way that is less confrontational and partisan than what we have before us today to encourage the Prime Minister to be more available and accountable to other members of Parliament?

Kody Blois, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister

Liberal
“The Prime Minister rarely speaks to a committee, and he does not need to here. We have good ministers who can answer these questions, including the Minister of Finance. Members can ask them every day during question period.”
  • Reply to a debate question

    Relevance 100 of 100

    Of this reply, 100% addressed the question or point raised.

    See full analysis
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, I actually did not have the chance in my remarks to address that particular point. I mean, it has not happened often that a sitting Prime Minister is going to sit in front of a parliamentary committee. My hon. learned colleague knows that that is quite rare in circumstance. We have a very talented team of government ministers, including the Minister of Finance. Obviously the Prime Minister is the one who is ultimately responsible as the first amongst equals within the cabinet. At the same time, we have a competent bench that can respond to these questions. The hon. member has time every single day the House of Commons sits to ask these questions of the government. I would differ as to whether or not it is the Prime Minister that has to be before a committee. Hopefully, today, that hon. member will get a chance to ask some of these questions to the Minister of Finance when she has her turn in this place during question period. That is accountability every single day that we look forward to.

Mario Beaulieu, La Pointe-de-l'Île

Bloc Québécois
“These bills give too much power to the Prime Minister's Office. It lets them decide on oil projects all on their own. The finance minister just repeats what the Prime Minister says. That is why committee members want to question the Prime Minister himself. What does my colleague think about this?”
  • Question or comment in debate

    Relevance 9 of 100

    None of this question addressed the preceding speech or the topic under debate.

    See full analysis
  • Question or comment in debate

    Respect 75 of 100

    This statement targeted a person rather than their actions or views: “merely a mouthpiece for the Prime Minister.”.

    See full analysis
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, in the same vein, Bill C-5 and Bill C-39 are concentrating power in the PMO, which can declare that an oil project is in the national interest and which makes all the decisions. It seems like the Minister of Finance is merely a mouthpiece for the Prime Minister. That is why people would like to speak with him directly in committee. What does my colleague think of that?

Pat Kelly, Calgary Crowfoot

Conservative

Linked statement

“I want the Prime Minister to come to the finance committee to answer for his spending. The Liberals have broken every promise they made about controlling debt and deficits. The interest we pay on the debt is growing fast, and it now costs more than health care or the military.”
  • A repeated line

    “The cost of government has driven up the cost of living.”

    Said 4 times by 3 members since April 27.

    Every time it was said
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time with the member for Barrie South—Innisfil. Today, the opposition moves that the House call on the Prime Minister to appear as a witness at the finance committee. For 11 years, the cost of government has driven up the cost of living. The result of these accumulated deficits is that interest on the national debt is the fastest-growing cost of the government. The Liberals now spend more on debt than they do on the Canada health transfer. This works out to $6,000 in federal taxes per Canadian family of four. The Prime Minister promised that he would reduce the debt-to-GDP ratio and the deficit-to-GDP ratio, but the Liberal government has broken every fiscal promise, has jettisoned every fiscal anchor and has smashed through every fiscal guardrail that it has ever set for itself. In the wake of a truly horrific Parliamentary Budget Officer’s report, it is time for the Prime Minister to explain himself at the finance committee. It is worth remembering how we got here. In 2015, on page 12 of their campaign document entitled “Real Change: A New Plan for a Strong Middle Class”, the Liberals promised modest short-term deficits of less than $10 billion in each of the next two fiscal years. They immediately broke that promise when they tabled a $30-billion deficit in 2016 and another $30-billion deficit the next year. They acted like they had never promised maximum modest short-term deficits and a return to balance by 2019. That is a return because that is where they started from. They said not to worry because they had a fiscal anchor. They promised, “a low and consistently declining debt-to-GDP ratio”. They made that promise in 2015 and again in the 2016 budget, when Bill Morneau actually said, “our interest rates have never been lower, so we can borrow on excellent terms”. Never mind that he was breaking a campaign promise from only a few months earlier, never mind that the deficits would only get worse, never mind that without a plan to ever return to balance, they might eventually have to refinance their debt at higher rates and never mind that despite Justin Trudeau’s claim, budgets do not ever just balance themselves. They cut loose this first fiscal anchor in the fall 2018 economic statement when their debt-to-GDP ratio jumped up. Then in 2019, they again promised to reduce debt as a function of our economy “each and every year”, and they failed to keep that promise, too, because even before the pandemic began in March 2020, the Liberals were already on track to break that promise. They had already baked in a structural deficit and added $100 billion to the national debt before COVID without any COVID spending. After the pandemic, they went back to claiming that a declining debt-to-GDP ratio was their fiscal anchor, “a line we shall not cross, and that will ensure that our finances remain sustainable so long as it remains unbreached.” So said Chrystia Freeland in 2022. Of course, they breached it again. They breached it in the very next budget in 2023 and again in 2024. By late 2024, the finance minister resigned rather than table a fall economic statement that blew through her own promise, breaking projections that she had made just six months earlier regarding new spending. Then the new Prime Minister arrived. Their 2025 platform again promised declining debt to GDP “over the budget horizon”, but right after he won the election and ran on that promise, he ignored it and came back with a new plan. He resorted to accounting trickery, a promise to balance the operating budget and to do so by 2028-29. He promised a declining deficit to GDP, but their spring economic statement earlier this year already projects that the debt-to-GDP ratio will continue to rise and will not decline until 2029, at which time it will still be higher than it was in that 2024 fall economic statement that precipitated the resignations of both Freeland and Trudeau. We have seen that for 11 years, the government has broken every fiscal promise, smashed through every fiscal guardrail and repeatedly cut loose every fiscal anchor, which brings us to this month’s Parliamentary Budget Officer’s report, the “Economic and Fiscal Outlook”. According to the PBO, “The federal debt-to-GDP ratio...is projected to rise each year...[through] 2030-31.” So much for the line they shall not cross. So much for their finances remaining sustainable so long as that line goes unbreached. So much for another fiscal anchor cut loose and sunk to the bottom of the ocean. The PBO projects that “the Government will not meet its second [fiscal] anchor of...a declining deficit-to-GDP ratio”. Anchors away. The report goes on to say that “the two fiscal anchors have imposed limited fiscal discipline on government spending and borrowing.” It continues: Public debt charges are the fastest-growing expense. They are projected to more than double from $24.5 billion in 2021-22 to $59.3 billion in 2026-27 and are projected to reach $83.0 billion by 2030-31.... On a per capita basis, public debt charges [climbed] from $640 in 2021-22 to $1,419 in 2026-27 and are projected to reach $1,952 in 2030-31.... This is a terrible report. The short-term outlook, though, for the balance of this year actually reflects higher than projected revenues, but the higher revenues are because of world oil prices, not increasing economic output. In fact, the higher revenue comes “Despite weaker real economic activity”. The government receives higher revenues, and consumers face higher prices. A brief sugar high of unexpectedly higher revenue will not pay down the national debt, and it is not going to anchor the government’s finances. The rapidly rising cost of debt service on the national debt is entirely due to accumulating deficits. It is not from higher than projected interest rates, but the possibility of higher interest rates in the years to come has been identified by the PBO as an emerging risk to Canada’s fiscal health. The report states, “Public debt charges are now...twice as sensitive to higher interest rates as in pre-pandemic outlooks, mainly because the Government carries a larger stock of interest-bearing debt.” We must remember, this is the government that was willing to pile on debt long before COVID and continues to do so long after, and these are the same Liberals who said back in 2016 that low interest rates meant it was safe to run deficits. Now we are twice as vulnerable to factors beyond our control because interest is now the fastest-growing government expense. We now spend more on interest than we do on national defence. We now spend more on interest than we do on the health transfer. It is now over 13% of the federal budget and rapidly rising. The per capita interest cost is rising faster than per capita income. An average family is already paying nearly $6,000 in taxes just for interest on the national debt, and the number is going to grow quickly in the next four years. Canadians cannot afford to pay more taxes in order to pay more interest, and this government continues to rack up debt. Canadians are not getting ahead. Their incomes are not keeping pace with inflation. They are already highly taxed, and the portion of their taxes that is going straight to bondholders is increasing. As for the portion of Canadian taxes that goes to interest, the government’s options narrow. The room to lower taxes, increase services, increase defence capability or pay down debt is more and more limited. That is why Conservatives want the finance minister to come to the finance committee and testify on saving Canadians money by cutting spending, debt interest and taxes. It is time for the Prime Minister to take responsibility for his broken promises and his government’s failed approach to budgeting. This government inherited a balanced budget. The Liberals inherited a rapidly declining per capita interest expense. It is right there in the report. They inherited what The New York Times called the world’s most prosperous middle class. They had every advantage that a new government could possibly ask for back in 2015, and they blew it. This PBO report should be a wake-up call to the government. It is time for the Prime Minister to admit that up until now, the Liberals’ fiscal anchors and campaign promises were not kept. Some say it is never too late to do the right thing. I would hope that the Prime Minister may actually welcome the opportunity to attend the finance committee. He can apologize to Canadians for his broken promises, and he can still reverse course and save Canadians money.

Kevin Lamoureux, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Liberal
“Canada and Germany are the only G7 countries with a top credit rating. We invest public and private money to grow the economy and create jobs across the country. Why do the Conservatives oppose these investments?”
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, I will go to the facts. Out of the G7, only Germany and Canada have the AAA credit rating. The difference between us and the Conservatives is that we understand and appreciate the value of investing in Canada, in Canadians, to build a stronger and healthier economy. Just moments ago, I was talking with members from CentrePort in Winnipeg. CentrePort is going to be one of the driving forces of Manitoba’s economy. By doing that, it will make a difference, with both private and public investment growing job opportunities. That is not unique to the northwest area of Winnipeg. It is happening in every region of Canada. Why does the Conservative Party oppose government and private sector investment?

Pat Kelly, Calgary Crowfoot

Conservative
“The Liberals break their promises and do not care. The government breaks every fiscal limit it sets for itself.”
  • Reply to a debate question

    Relevance 35 of 100

    None of this reply addressed the specific point raised or the topic under debate.

    See full analysis
  • Reply to a debate question

    Respect 71 of 100

    This statement targeted a person rather than their actions or views: “I know he is impervious to shame”.

    See full analysis
Official Hansard

Mr. Speaker, I am not sure where the member was really heading to there. I know he is impervious to shame. This member ran on a platform way back in 2015. The Liberals do not care that they do not keep their promises. The government that he speaks for breaches every fiscal anchor it lays down for itself, and this member does not care.

Discussion

No comments yet

See the full discussion

Comment rules

More from sitting 156

  1. Government Orders Business of Supply 105 statements
  2. Oral Questions The Economy 8 statements
  3. Oral Questions Housing 6 statements
  4. Oral Questions Oil and Gas Industry 4 statements
  5. Oral Questions Finance 10 statements
  6. Oral Questions Labour 4 statements
  7. Oral Questions Steel and Aluminum Industry 5 statements
  8. Oral Questions Veterans Affairs 2 statements
  9. Oral Questions Housing 8 statements
  10. Oral Questions Intergovernmental Relations 6 statements
  11. Oral Questions Government Appointments 4 statements
  12. Oral Questions Fisheries and Oceans 8 statements
  13. Oral Questions Youth 2 statements
  14. Oral Questions Small Business 2 statements
  15. Oral Questions Natural Resources 6 statements
  16. Oral Questions International Trade 2 statements
  17. Oral Questions Rail Transportation 2 statements
  18. Oral Questions Marine Transportation 2 statements
  19. Government Orders Business of Supply 41 statements
  20. Oral Questions Natural Resources 2 statements
  21. Government Orders Business of Supply 17 statements
  22. Private Members' Business Relieving Grieving Parents of an Administrative Burden Act (Evan's Law) 2 statements
  23. Government Orders Committees of the House 2 statements
  24. Private Members' Business Relieving Grieving Parents of an Administrative Burden Act (Evan's Law) 4 statements
  25. Orders of the Day Concurrence in Committee Reports 71 statements
  26. Adjournment Proceedings Adjournment Proceedings 4 statements
  27. Adjournment Proceedings Adjournment Proceedings 4 statements
  28. Adjournment Proceedings Adjournment Proceedings 4 statements